Is classical music really better than popular music?

[L0n212]

Hi LOn212,

Some good points you make. I'm one of those who thinks JSBach is best but I also like Telemann, Rachmaninoff, Tournemire, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, Bruckner, Jakob Handl, Mozart, Chopin, and many others very much.

I also love Jazz with a passion - just like I love the music of JSBach.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

I completely share your sentiment. I love the film scores (some of them only), and soundtracks from video games nearly as intense as video games. But when you go to the conservatories, it's all of the traditional composers, like Wagner, Beethoven Mozart that are taught and played. The other music are "lesser" without giving a good explanation, just believe as you are taught.

I like Bach, but I don't like all his music. I like his Cantatas, all his vocal music, his orchestral music, but not his "academic" music. These are works like the WTC, Partitas for keyboard, Art of Fugue, etc... I find these works to be stiff, cold and sterile, yet they are hailed to be the summation of human music. I would like to see a rigorous proof for that, because to me music is to be enjoyed, and if I don't enjoy it then to me it has little value.

I don't like any Beethoven except for his piano concertos, thus I believe that there must be many that share my tastes, that is if orthodoxy didn't exist to silence all that disagree by branding them as "unsophisticated".

However, for the composers like Vivaldi, Telemann, Faure, some anonymous composers from the Early periods, are considered to be "shallow". I disagree, and I want to see proofs, but there are none. Since the 19th century, people have been peppering these dogmas around, and it's been brainwashing people.

Telemann's music, although simple, are extremely well crafted, and can be very very deep if they suit your taste. And Beethoven's music can be very chaotic if you don't like his style. Thus music should be much more relative than it's made to be. I'm sure you heard Phillip G Goulding's book about ranking 100 top composers, when you look that list, it's all about current popularity, Beethoven, Bhrams, Tchaikovsky are on top of the list, and Heinichen and Zelenka? Too unpopular to be on the list.

 

[draug]

Hmm. What a strange question.
I must admit I thought that music was mainly judged by what people get out rather than what composers put in.
Right now I am listening to 'The only thing that looks good on me is you!' by Bryan Adams. I really don't much care for most of his stuff and he would come nowhere near the front of the queue if someone asked me about my favourite music. However, I happen to get a kick out of this song........and its associations if you MUST KNOW! (Very low brow response!)
I happen to like riffs! I happen to like complexity!
Led Zep, Brahms, Fleetwood Mac, Saint-Saens, Fat Boy Slim, Tchaikovsky, ACDC, Wagner, .......s'all on the same playlist, dude!
It's all the same to me. I caught my son playing air guitar to Mozart's PC no 23 the other day....what the hell, eh?
Cried at Rach 2 in concert, cried at Page and Plant live.....
Beauty is in the ear of the beholder!:grin:

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hello draug,

I really like what you said: "Beauty is in the ear of the beholder" - Its a "keeper" quote.

Cheers,

CD

 

[C5Says]

Hello draug,

I really like what you said: "Beauty is in the ear of the beholder" - Its a "keeper" quote.

Cheers,

CD

Very true. I have different sorts of classicals in my playlist together with Queen.

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi C5,

With all due respect, honor and humbleness to you and Sybarite I must say that I'm very sorry for what I'm about to say - The music of Queen makes me just want to gag. U2 I can handle but no Queen.

So sorry my dears :bawl::bawl::bawl:

CD ray:ray:ray:

 

[acciaccatura]

Where I draw the line is when music becomes a political message that has no musical content, such as rap. In my book, to be music a work (or 'song') must have in it several musical elements such as pulse, rhythm, harmony and melody, and there must be an emphasis on those elements as being separate from political statements. It is not enough to apply a monotonous beat and use a single chord, that is to make a mockery of music - which I think is precisely the intention. Call it art, I don't care, but including rap in the music category is degrading to the whole concept.

I think 'popular' music is as broad a term as 'classical'. It ranges from simple popsongs to complex avant-garde jazz - and beyond that there are transitional genres. It would be futile to characterize one genre as being more 'worthy' than the next though there can certainly be differences in complexity and intricacy of composition. In a way it is telling that very few musicians have the ability to transcend the iron curtain between 'popular' and 'classical' - nevertheless many do not shy away from criticizing the other side.

It would be better if we recognize musical value on basis of its quality rather than its genre and recognize that people have different preferences. That does not mean, though, that we should not do a better job at educating the population. Light popular music has a clear advantage because it is easy to understand without any musical knowledge. I think that it would take better education and a more accepting attitude to music as art form to have people more interested in compositional music. Otherwise, I fear we are dealing with an endangered 'species'...

 

[Contratrombone64]

Acciaccatura - I quite agree with you on that. I think "rap" isn't music but oration.

If you don't mind me asking, which part of which Islands do you come from? (Øerne)

men min dansk er ikke so godt!!

 

[C5Says]

Hi C5,

With all due respect, honor and humbleness to you and Sybarite I must say that I'm very sorry for what I'm about to say - The music of Queen makes me just want to gag. U2 I can handle but no Queen.

So sorry my dears :bawl::bawl::bawl:

CD ray:ray:ray:

Oh Corno, you need not be sorry for what your ears can take.

I appreciate Queen because of its depth, the difficulty, musicality and poetry all combined. Try to follow the notes with closed eyes. It's not the voice of the singer, it's the composition. There is this movie, Ella Enchanted..she sang Somebody To Love and it was performed very well. No one's forcing you to like it, though.

 

[draug]

I do like Queen, I must admit, but I totally get how they can make people gag!
I LURVE U2 as well. I don't think Rap has a political message - it doesn't even seem to have that redeeming quality, it's seems to emphasise the 'politics' of treating women as objects. U2 make a big political splash, but also go ahead and put their money where their mouth is, for instance paying Greenpeace's legal bill which reputedly amounts to 12-13 million sterling a year!
Classical music can make a stance in the political arena too. Barhenboim, conducting the Arab/Jewish orchestra and making a point of where and when he performs.
I like GOOD pop, fr'instance, Desert Rose by Sting. Love that North African vibe! But then, I can love trash too! ACDC - Back in Black, what a great song!
Also, no-one should apologise for their taste.
I think if I had not followed the path of a scientist, my ideal job would have been to make music videos. Now, we not only have great pop/rock videos but classical music has gone down that route. Whether it's soft focus shots of Placido Domingo singing something fabulous, or Leif Ove Andsnes playing Grieg on the top of a cliff at Hardanger Fjord, we can see combined image and music in most genres. Personally, I am a fan of this. I love videos and have a very nerdy back-catalogue of them - VCR and DVD.
XXX

 

[Mahlon]

L0n212- I know taste is relative, but please give the Bach partitas and the WTC a chance. For me it is some of the most transcendental, spiritual, emotional, artistic, pragmatic, beautiful, geniously crafted music I have ever listened to. I don't mean to insult your opinion in any way, but I suggest you listen to this, recording
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1ixAbFekM0
I sincerely believe this music is the antithesis of "stiff, cold, and sterile" Also, I think it's wrong to equate genuine intellectual mastery with elitsm, they are too completely different things.

For me, this music is pure ecstasy, yes it's glenn gould, but this is Bach at his best.

 

[rojo]

For me, this music is pure ecstasy, yes it's glenn gould, but this is Bach at his best.

Hi Mahlon,

That kind of sounds like you mean that Glenn Gould performing it makes it a bad thing. :lol: (j/k)

 

[Mahlon]

no no. I just, well I know people have prejudices against him for his humming and strange position at the piano, I suppose I was trying to say that in a veiled way, not everyone likes his interpretations I know this, but I personally think they are wonderful.

lol i didn't see the j/k at the end of your post.. shame on me

I'm so glad I found this article, I think it's a perfect example of how the modern culture embraces stupidity and then blames people who use their brains of being elitist.. (maybe that sounds elitist because it is bland and maybe it is insulting, but it is true! We must reform education in America. (O i just remembered this is an international forum, ); heh this is fascinating

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/02/15/DI2008021502904.html

 

[cambiatagn]

Classical Vs. Pop? Why?

It is pointless to insist on defining music by labels such as classical or popular. In his day, Mozart was considered a popular composer (I've heard the term "the Barry Manilow of his time" several times), but most of us acknowledge his (Mozart's - not Manilow's) greatness today. Who knows who will be considered the Mozart of our day ina century or two or three?

My ensembles always emphasize the commonalities of music across genres and periods and labels. My guitar/cello duo (now trio, with a percussionsit) plays everything from Bach, Boccherini, and Gliere through Joni Mitchell and Jimi Hendrix. And my piano/cello duo (usually performing as a trio with clarinet) plays classical music, tangos, and Latin, jazz-inflected chamber music by Paquito D'Rivera, and we always include a free improv, as well. And our audiences LOVE the variety and the opportunity to discover music that's new to them or to gain new understanding of what they thought someone's music was.

And, to complicate things further, there is a great deal of music that is genre-bending. D'Rivera's compositions often fall in to that category (wtiness his Grammys in chamber music and Latin and Jazz). So does a recent album on which I played, by former Canadian Punk star Dave Rave and jazz guitarist Mark McCarron. Mark wrote arrangements for their original songs for vocal, guitar, piano, bass, drums, cello, and woodwind quartet (flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon) that had definitely classical elements (some even showed influences of Satie and Schoenberg), but the songs themselves were by no means classical - they are generally referred to as "jazz-inflected pop." And, last year, I wrote a tune for a folk duo with whom I work that could just as easily be programmed on a "classical" vocal recital, but still fit the duo's style quite well.

Chamber Music America has, in recent years, expanded its definition of chamber music to any "music for small ensembles in which players perform one to a part, generally without a conductor...At the heart of this art form is a spirit of collaboration. Democratic in essence, chamber music demands that each individual engage in a close musical dialogue with the other performers. Their collective musical instinct, experience, knowledge, and talent guide the process of interpreting, rehearsing, and performing. "

The only questions we should be asking are, "Is it good?" "Do I love it?" "Will my audience love it?"

I know, I know, don't be so shy. Tell us what you really think."

 

[rojo]

not everyone likes his interpretations

Well, they should. :grin:

 

[Azza]

then would some of you class todays melodic trance techno music a"new age"form of classical music,it has all the makings I believe...I am just asking where you think that music will be in the next 50 years,with some of the new sounds that the keyboards are coming out with these days,the pads especially tend to almost blow your mind...cheers

 

[Fretless]

To the original question I would say "yes", if we're talking about Popular Music as the kind of music we hear on Top 40 radio. Most definitely.

 

[zoned]

Sure classical music is better-it tends to make one think,which alot of people do not want to do these days.

 

[Mahlon]

yes thought. This is what sepereates people from gorillas. (No offense to our fuzzy friends)

 

[ChristineHull]

Who are we to judge? We like what we think is best, and what we think is best we like.

I like both classical and some popular music. I see that a lot of popular music has very little merit, but some is great. From somebody who likes classical music of course it is better, but anyone who doesn't like it would hastily disagree!

mbopmegastore.com

 

[Deeru Piotr]

I agree with Christine, Harnonkourt said "there's only two kinds of music, good or bad" and you could find both of these in pop or anywhere (mmmmmmmmmm, maybe including some classical music)