If you could change the world...

intet_at_tabe

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret.)
Changing the world starts with changing one's self. :) If everyone changed for the better, we're going to have a better world.

C5says :tiphat: - You´re right on the money

Besides bringing the Final Solution for people who suffer from powerty, hunger, suppression through unneeded emposed wars, contageous deseaces, lack of medical help due to disasters of nature, lack of political and economical influence to their own situation and lives, lack of education etc.etc. I would reverse the situation we all face today, in a somewhat new experiment.

I would change which countries are members of the group considered to be the rich countries in the western world as we know it to which are the third world countries on the other side. To let the former poor citizens and countries become the present rich countries.

Only to make each group of countries understand that the more we all know about each other, our history, ourselves and every other man or woman on the planet - using empathy, the more possibilities and repsonsabilities we all would share to reach a more peaceful world, where everyone on the planet are responsable and share for anyone else.

A naive example:

If you don´t eat, I don´t eat.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
"Final Solution"? Intet, be careful with that phrase - Adolph Hitler used it quite often.

When we pray to the Eternal One to change the circumstances around us, the Eternal One uses our circumstances to change us.
 

intet_at_tabe

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret.)
"Final Solution"? Intet, be careful with that phrase - Adolph Hitler used it quite often.

When we pray to the Eternal One to change the circumstances around us, the Eternal One uses our circumstances to change us.

Dear Corno Dolce :tiphat:

I know about the Final Solution regarding the little unsuccessful painter from Austria and his gang of criminals against humanity, not the best expression to use. Sorry!!

I just could not find the right words.

However it does seem to me that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. There are more countries in the world today, where the differences between rich and poor are increasing, than in the past. In some countries the poor are called lazy?
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Dear Intet,

You're living in the upper ten percentile of the world richest people - which makes you guilty as charged :D:grin::smirk::lol:

With much love,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
C5says :tiphat: - You´re right on the money

Besides bringing the Final Solution for people who suffer from powerty, hunger, suppression through unneeded emposed wars, contageous deseaces, lack of medical help due to disasters of nature, lack of political and economical influence to their own situation and lives, lack of education etc.etc. I would reverse the situation we all face today, in a somewhat new experiment.

I would change which countries are members of the group considered to be the rich countries in the western world as we know it to which are the third world countries on the other side. To let the former poor citizens and countries become the present rich countries.

quote]

Well , intet-at-tabe,

I know one guy from a history book who have tried to do the thing you are talking about , but only within " one separate taken land ". To make rich to the poor, poor to the rich. The name of this guy was -

Wladimir Ilyich Ulyanow, better known as Lenin.

The result of this experiment was - USSR.
 

Muza

New member
I was just about to say the same, Andrew.

That was ...unsuccessfull. Do you guys think communism could work in theory? Can there be Utopia in life? If you take smaller societies, like Kibuts in Israel, it kinda works...
 

Muza

New member
I dont think Indian tribes were similar with regards to social order and things like that. I mean, a tribe is a family of a kind - its pretty small, and everybody has similar responsibilities. everybody has to work and do something, and at the same time nobody can be richer or poorer. I guess that was what communist idealists tried to accomplish, but it just didnt quite fit into a society where some people have a chance to accomplish more than others (money wise and opportunity wise).
 

intet_at_tabe

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret.)
Well, my dear friends Muza dear :tiphat:, Corno Dolce :tiphat:, Andrew :tiphat: and the guys :tiphat:.

I would probably say I belong to the upper 5-10 percent of the entire world, like you my dear co-5-percent-levelled-friends. We were lucky to get born, geographically speaking, in the peaceful democratical part of the world with no every day obligation to survive.

The reason, I entered this post of reversing the wealth of this world was as an idea of an experimient - not towards communism Andrew, it´s no better than capitalism, it all ends up in greed, sexual perversions, hatred and lust for money and power for the tiny elite of any society democratical or communists, based on cheeting, lying, manipulation and corruption to benefit one self or ones company/country.

My question would be, which of the two groups would do best in surviving as a civilisation as an experiment?

Frankly! I have just reread "Lord Of The Flies", by the author William Golding, which made me think.
 
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marval

New member
Hi Intet

I read Lord of the flies a long time ago, and I saw the film. Definately one to make you think.


Margaret
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
Hi Intet

I read Lord of the flies a long time ago, and I saw the film. Definately one to make you think.


Margaret

Intet-at-tabe and Margaret,

Lord Of The Flies is a wonderful reading, I agree. I think it is one of my favourite books, generally - though I don't like everything of Golding.

Lord Of The Flies has much in common with philosophy of Dostoewsky, on my opinion. It is, in fact, deeply Christian. But I don't see a link to the topic of changing the world here - it is more about the devotion to some all-human, timeless values, without which a human can not survive - does not matter whether in small groups ( like it is described in a book ) or in a scale of a whole mankind.

Intet-at-tabe - my applause for mentioning the Lord Of Flies - man , I am already wanting to reread it !!!
 

marval

New member
LOL at Andrew

Yes I think I must see if the library has Lord of the flies, and reread it.


Margaret
 

Muza

New member
I never got to read that book. I really should find it and read it, especially now that you guys are talking about it (and i cant ;()

And yes, Barbecue and meat absolutely rules:p
 

intet_at_tabe

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret.)
Ms. Margaret, Muza dear and Andrew :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat: (some day you will have to teach me how to enter these "crazy and funny" emoticons of yours...).

"Lord Of The Flies", by WG was the first book, I read during English classes in public school from the 6. grade, and I can only say it had a huge impact on me. I must have read it all together some 10 times over the years, and I have seen the film as well two times. The fight between right and wrong, good or bad, democracy or tyrany? Also they decide for a God (religion).

The interesting part for me, related to the reverse of wealth to the poor countries and likewise the poor society to the former rich is, that WG´s idea is that no matter what sort of Robinson Cruso situation we´re in, we will automaticly always try to recreate a society of law and order, as we have been taught from childhood, through school days and as adults - after certain rules, and there has to be one leader (at least) one Lord of the flies.

These young school boys, who end up on this deserted island, with none whatsoever adults around - we don´t know how they got there, wether the reason is a war on nukes or a shipwreck, they are simply there as survivors and not one single adult to take responsabilty for these kids, and the first thing they do is to elect a leader. But is it the right leader???

The story is IMHO that we´re all mostly ants/flies on this planet, who will do what our Lord/leader says or demands, we should do. So we´re free ourselves for taking responsability towards any wrong discissions. A leader is also the one, who is always the mentally stronger person - than the flock he leads.

So in the context of my suggested experiment asking, which group will do better than the other group, if relations suddenly changed. I believe the former wealthy society, but now poor will always do better, than reversed - mostly because a rich/wealthy society always, to be rich - educates the population/the citizens on various skills, for instance how to run a democratical society.

An example:

When the Belgiums (from Europe) finally left the state of Congo in Africa (Congo the biggest state of all in Africa at the size of Europe) after years on end of imperialism, colonisation and apartheit they brought back with them everything they had invested in Congo, down to the last photo copying machines, telephones etc. etc. What they could not bring back they burned, shot to pieces or blew up with explosives. This left Congo with nothing at all and worse with no administration to handle ordinary obligations, for instance no policing, no courts, no working parliament, no administration and no educational institutions, almost like the Belgiums in the year 1500 found Congo - an uncivilised country with no rules of democratical means or tools - the confused out of any order - anarchy.

So my point with mentioning "Lord of the Flies" about the young school boys, due to this specific context of reversing, who were rich and wealthy is, that the society who has been educated on what is important for all citizens, will always win no matter how bad things look at first. The none educated society, who suddenly has everything the rich had before, don´t understand to make equal laws and rules to benefit more people than the opposite, and can only achieve the anarchy - like Congo - because they will always think each and everybody on their own selfish needs.

Just look at Africa today, post Nelson Mandela and the ending of apartheit - completely chaos, no structure, no equallity, no democratical rules and laws - it´s as uncivilised in parts of Africa as it was in the year 1500, with more than 15 civil wars in various states, like the Sudan and Congo where there´s an increasing genoside forgotten by the western world and the UN.

Just some thoughts guys, but thank you for answering.
 
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marval

New member
That is very interesting and about the Congo very true.

Unfortunately you will always get anarchy if there is no responsible person, to rule and keep order. Sometimes it is everyone for themselves, and no thought for other people. Therefore no proper order is established.


I have found an interesting link to Lord of the Flies, which gives an insight into the story and the people.

www.homework-online.com/lotf/index.asp

I really must read this book again, I had to read it when I did my exams at school.

Another book that has a similar theme is "Animal Farm," by George Orwell. It is about pigs on a farm who take over. But it is really very political.


Margaret
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
Well this smiley goes exclusively to Intet-at-tabe this time!!!




So my point with mentioning "Lord of the Flies" about the young school boys, due to this specific context of reversing, who were rich and wealthy is, that the society who has been educated on what is important for all citizens, will always win no matter how bad things look at first. The none educated society, who suddenly has everything the rich had before, don´t understand to make equal laws and rules to benefit more people than the opposite, and can only achieve the anarchy - like Congo - because they will always think each and everybody on their own selfish needs.

Yep, sure - but, to add a bit oil in the fire....I share a little bit "politically incorrect" idea that the so called rich countries have deserved and earned their present wellness themselves. Think of the post-war Germany, for example - in 1945, nothing but ruins. Not a single somehow important centre , or large city, stayed undestroyed. Within only 30-40 years - the third world economy. Almost the same goes to Japan ( the second world economy ). Yes, Marshall plan, help from the US - I know....But , UK has managed it ,to recover its economy after WWII without such help, and the Soviet Union is another example.

So, I know that an average German wakes up at 6.15 a.m. to begin his working day at app. 7.30, and I know that the Japanese have almost no holidays throughout the year. That is where the richness come from.

At the other hand, the poorer the country is - the more corrupt goverment it has ( or vice versa ). Look at Birma now, where 150 000 people must die NOT - and even not to a greater part - only because of a natural disaster, but because the f...g junta at power afraids to let the international helping organisations in the country. These guys at power can not be replaced from outside , because it will not bring the desirable changes. An example is Iraq.

I would say, if I really could change the world, I would likely protect people from the natural catastrophes like tsunami, earthquakes etc., because these are the situations where people are really defenceless. All other problems people are able to solve themselves.
 
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