Criminal Punishment - Your Thoughts

[Corno Dolce]

Oh CT64,

Don't be such a party-pooper :shake:

 

[teddy]

CT64

You don't know what an old nag is unless you met my first wife.

teddy

 

[Dorsetmike]

Sounds like my first one too Teddy.

As they say, man spends the majority of his life looking for the ideal woman, in the meantime he marries.

 

[Corno Dolce]

Dorsetmike,

Oooooooooooooo - cuts like a knife........

First, I followed my eyes - always lots of problems - Then I followed my soul and heart - WOW!!! what a difference.............

 

[Contratrombone64]

wise words Corno - it's seldom the show pony that causes long lasting affection, more often than not it's the dapple-grey.

 

[Corno Dolce]

And wiser words still CT64........

 

[teddy]

Women! You can't live with them and you can't live with them!

 

[JHC]

Women! You can't live with them and you can't live with them!

You been on the Red again teddy??

 

[JHC]

Yea for Arizona!! I completely agree with you, CD ... Amen, Brother ... Amen!!

Prisoners here have rioted because they got meatloaf three times in one week ... and they get national news headlines for it ... Whoa, Nelly!! Headline news? For shame on the media, imho.

Heck, I would love to have meatloaf three times a week, and so would lots of other people who were on limited budgets.

It seems the US, UK and NZ have the same stupid problems, one of our major problems is Drugs, it is so easyto get them into prison, now this particular prob is easily solved by allowing no physical contact in any form what so ever, one crim to one cell, no contact with any other crims or visitors.

Dear Colin,

As was mentioned about you running for Prison Warden :grin::smirk:

A most thankless job that is a political *ejection seat*.

The criminal minds will always be with us - However, a society need not spend the same amount of money that it would cost to send someone to Oxford University vs costs of warehousing(prison).

I agree 100% so why waste time trying to rehabilitate them. As a species we have violence/aggression programmed into us, this coupled with our intelligence, language, and dexterity of hand etc is what makes us the dominant species, as I see it the problem is that our social and technical development has far exceeded our evolutionary development, we are still in the stone age in that respect. The majority can control this aggression, we need to if we are to live in societies which are numbered in the hundreds of thousands but what to do with those that do not have this control or those that develop this aggression through damage to the Prefrontal Cortex as in a motor accident or a sport injury etc.
In the near future we will be capable of some manipulation of our genetic structure but we must never eliminate any of our “Human” trends [such as aggression] we have these for very good reasons and will in all probability have to call on them in the future

I find myself once again thinking about those who were sentenced to walk around in stocks. The psychological pressure plus widespread public knowlege(photographs of the perp) would break their bad habits. This coupled with the *reformational practices* of Sheriff Arpaio could be a great way to solve intractable problems.

Cheers,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

Again 100% agreement.
In NZ we have to provide a suite for conjugal rights, I will say no more. A recent convict on the way to prison with two other cons actually attacked one of the other cons a youth of about 17 and strangled him with his own restrainments, they cant be too tight as they may chaff the wrists, he has now obtained the services of a Lawyer (paid for by the state aka us), he is claiming $20,000 + in compensation from the state for the failure of the system to correct his anti social violent behaviour which would have prevented him murdering this youth, the mind boggles eh.
A man was recently imprisoned after driving when banned and having no driving licence plus a few thousand dollars in unpaid fines, he had something like 180 previous convictions, Why was he not in prison??
I recently had a speeding fine my very first in 52 years and had to pay on the spot or extra $$$ would be added. Now who is the idiot ???

Too many excuses are made to place the blame for an individuals actions onto some one else, it is always someone’s else’s fault.
Our new government is determined to have privately run prisons, these will be provided with the state (us) picking up the tabs and the private sector taking the profits, they will run them much more economically than the state, I would love to know how this is to be achieved?? They will still be monitored by the wishy washy liberals.

So …….My suggestions……. Two types of Prison one for non violent crims and one for violent crims. The second would be run under very harsh rules such as “no contact” no Radio, TV, Phones etc but access to books of an educational value, just in case there is the odd repentant in there. Which I doubt it very much.
　
For non criminal offences a fine that must be paid before the offender can be released, if not paid then into the Slammer, if not paid within 24 hrs the costs of keep will be added if not paid within 7 days then a prison sentence will be given but the fine will still stand.
for all first criminal offences a short sentence of 7-14 days in a minimum security prison, no warnings, suspended sentences, and no exceptions, this of course is for non violent offences.
For any violent offences a prison sentences is mandatory with no parole.

Excuse me I have gone on far too long:grin:

 

[Corno Dolce]

Dear Colin,

An insightful homily you provide. More often than not society relegates the crims to *out of sight, out of mind status*. It costs money to reform the criminal mind - more than most constituents are willing to pay for with their tax dollars. Of course, Sheriff Arpaio's methods are quite inexpensive when compared to the *supermax* facilities where a small, single cell and no contact, visual or otherwise with other inmates can occur. Again, *warehousing* is easy, reformation is costly.

I'm all for separating the violents from the non-violents but that necessarily means extra cost. In Russia criminals are sent to far-eastern Siberian outposts where there are no roads or rails and the closest house is at least 100 kilometres away. They work the whole day from early morning to late evening and are given not alot of food and are watched by guards and dogs 24/7. Of course, Russia is not exactly known for *human rights* in re to prisoners........

 

[JHC]

It costs money to reform the criminal mind - more than most constituents are willing to pay for with their tax dollars.

Can you ever reform a Crim?? [I do not mean a first offender] I think it is 99:1 against.

Of course, Sheriff Arpaio's methods are quite inexpensive when compared to the *supermax* facilities where a small, single cell and no contact, visual or otherwise with other inmates can occur. Again, *warehousing* is easy, reformation is costly.

I'm all for separating the violents from the non-violents but that necessarily means extra cost. In Russia criminals are sent to far-eastern Siberian outposts where there are no roads or rails and the closest house is at least 100 kilometres away. They work the whole day from early morning to late evening and are given not alot of food and are watched by guards and dogs 24/7. Of course, Russia is not exactly known for *human rights* in re to prisoners........

I take it "warehousing = "privatisation" or are you meaning something else? I think the money saved on a harsh prison for violents would make up for having a split system, there is always going to be a cost but you are right in that the present system is far too high,
most respectfully yours
Colin
PS GB used to send offenders to Aussie but CT64 may have something to say about that :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Corno Dolce]

Honorable Colin,

By *warehousing* I wish to say prison or jail time to be served - Out of sight, out of mind. I have no notion of what nomenclature is used in budgeting for prisons in New Zealand. I believe it is usually called *Correctional Facilities* in America.

Crims can be reformed but it takes time and costs money and it requires that each crim has a *supervisor* who can help as they readjust to a life outside of prison. In some states there are *transitional facilities* where case-workers are assigned to each crim.

Yes, the residents of Oz don't like to be reminded that their country was a former *Penal Colony*:grin::grin::grin: Oh, the sins of GB(UK).

Most respectfully yours,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

 

[Dorsetmike]

I still think a return to harsher penalties is needed, "hard labour" like rock breaking (quarrying by hand), beating, death penalty (think how much money we'd save on keeping ones like the Yorkshire ripper in prison or secure mental institutions), stocks or pillory for some, the muslim practice of removing a hand that steals, castrastion (with a blunt knife and no anaesthetic?) for rapists.

Find a really remote deserted island with no trees so they can't build boats/rafts, build a few concrete shelters, supply a few basic vegetable seeds and minimum tools for hand cultivation, deposit crims by air drop, supply drops only of essential items they can not grow.

No TV, radio or other entertainment except perhaps an automatic CD player with no accessible controls which randomly plays Gorecki, Einaudi, and similar unlistenable cr@p, no games or sports equipment, separate islands for male and female so no chance of breeding either.

Similar idea to CD's Siberian set up except you don't need to waste money on guards, and no dogs, so no source of meat, strictly vegetarian

 

[teddy]

I believe the Island system was used bt the French. Different islands had different levels of hardship.

teddy

 

[JHC]

except perhaps an automatic CD player with no accessible controls which randomly plays Gorecki, Einaudi, and similar unlistenable cr@p,

That would be exactly the type of noise that these mindless high handicappers would listen to, just put em in a PC and press the shred now button.:crazy::crazy:

 

[Contratrombone64]

Women! You can't live with them and you can't live with them!

I quite happily live without women, no problem.

 

[marval]

Some good discussion going on here.

If I eat a dodgy sandwich it is my tough luck. If a prisoner eats one he becomes rich.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...isoned-prisoners.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo

Too many of our "lovely" locked up people sue the government. We are told they can do it under the "Human rights act." In my opinion they gave away their rights when they committed the crime and were locked up.

The people who should have the rights are the victims, and their families.


Margaret

 

[Contratrombone64]

Margaret - whilst I recognise your brutal, Thatcherist views on prisoners, suing the goverment for getting ill from the food they are served up in prision is kind of a two edged sword.

I think that we need, as a civilised society to handle prisoners with respect, I mean afterall they are being witheld their liberty or executed by some barbaric countries (the USA springs to mind) for heinous crimes. And this view of mine, is totally because I've been brianwashed by political correctness ... most vexing.

Maybe the dudicious introduction of the cat-o-nine-tails might be best for recalcitrant prisoners?

David

*who is presently wresstling himself from the grip of cotton-wool*

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hear, hear for the Cat-o-Nine tails - Makes for great impressions

:grin::grin::grin:

 

[Dorsetmike]

Hear, hear for the Cat-o-Nine tails - Makes for great impressions

:grin::grin::grin:

If wielded properly even lasting impressions!!!!!!!:smirk: