Crescendo Pedal for GrandOrgue

[e9925248]

There is no way to keep panels permanently in the foreground. Just place the panel above/below/right/left of the main panel.

Please note, that there are two GC: The setter panels ship a fixed GC, which also can be placed on the organ panels.
Some organs simpliy ship a normal general with the title GC - this is reprogrammable like any general (unless its content is set protected via ODF).

The crescendo panel elements are available via SetterElement for placement on ODF panels. They behave like any other element and are MIDI controllable.

The GO crescendo is "destructive" (=modifies the hand registration), as found on some organs. I'm aware, that there organs, that behave differently.
There is no way to return to the previous hand registration, but using scope/scoped GO turns drawstops on/off only at specific positions.

Lars has posted a youtube video about scoe/scoped (it is probably time for a crescendo screencast). The same principle is used for the crescendo.

 

[Mick Berg]

A non-destructive Crescendo Pedal

There is no way to keep panels permanently in the foreground. Just place the panel above/below/right/left of the main panel.

Please note, that there are two GC: The setter panels ship a fixed GC, which also can be placed on the organ panels.
Some organs simpliy ship a normal general with the title GC - this is reprogrammable like any general (unless its content is set protected via ODF).

The crescendo panel elements are available via SetterElement for placement on ODF panels. They behave like any other element and are MIDI controllable.

The GO crescendo is "destructive" (=modifies the hand registration), as found on some organs. I'm aware, that there organs, that behave differently.
There is no way to return to the previous hand registration, but using scope/scoped GO turns drawstops on/off only at specific positions.

Lars has posted a youtube video about scoe/scoped (it is probably time for a crescendo screencast). The same principle is used for the crescendo.

How about this for a non-destructive Crescendo Pedal. I thought of it during a rather sleepless night last night.
Sorry, post deleted. I realise my idea won't work.
Mick Berg.

 

[e9925248]

For a useful crescendo, you need to use scope/scoped, eg:
0: flute 8' off
1: flute 8' on, flute 4' off
2: flute 8' on, flute 4' on, 8' off
3: flute 8' off, flute 4' on, 8' on, 4' off
4: flute 4' off, 8' on, 4' on, 2' off
5: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' off
6: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' on

 

[Cybug]

Hi - Is there a set of instructions for creating a crescendo pedal from scratch? I have read the previous posts but have failed to make much progress. A document for simply adding and setting a crescendo pedal to an existing organ would be a useful addition for chumps like me
Thanks
Chris

 

[Mick Berg]

Hi - Is there a set of instructions for creating a crescendo pedal from scratch? I have read the previous posts but have failed to make much progress. A document for simply adding and setting a crescendo pedal to an existing organ would be a useful addition for chumps like me
Thanks
Chris

Hi Chris.
From a fellow chump................
The best thing I have found is Lars Palo's Youtube instructions.
It's quite easy if you follow those instructions.
Mind you it only deals with using the Crescendo from the Crescendo Panel.
As for using Scope and Scoped with the Crescendo, I'm still confused.
Mick Berg.

 

[Mick Berg]

For a useful crescendo, you need to use scope/scoped, eg:
0: flute 8' off
1: flute 8' on, flute 4' off
2: flute 8' on, flute 4' on, 8' off
3: flute 8' off, flute 4' on, 8' on, 4' off
4: flute 4' off, 8' on, 4' on, 2' off
5: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' off
6: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' on

Could you or someone expand on this information? I don't understand what we are supposed to do here. Are we supposed to make a Scoped for all these categories of stops? I think there are others too who would appreciate further explanation, see Cybug's post.


Thanks,
Mick.

 

[Mick Berg]

Another scheme for a Non-Destructive Crescendo pedal

Here's another hair-brained scheme for a non-destructive Crescendo Pedal.

I'm fortunate to still have the electro-mechanical Crescendo Pedal in my console. I'm thinking that if I were to assign each contact of the pedal to a combination piston, (I think I have enough "holes" left in my main MIDI interface) I could create a programmable crescendo. I think that the crescendo would not change the state of stops that were hand drawn.

It would have to be a "blind" crescendo, since if it physically moved the drawknobs (which I would prefer, of course) it would disengage the stop.

Would this work? I'm thinking it would, but I'd like to check before I re-wire 50 crescendo contacts up to the MIDI interface.


Thanks,
Mick

 

[Mick Berg]

Hi - Is there a set of instructions for creating a crescendo pedal from scratch? I have read the previous posts but have failed to make much progress. A document for simply adding and setting a crescendo pedal to an existing organ would be a useful addition for chumps like me
Thanks
Chris

Hi Chris.
I have learned from the ODF-Maker program created by Antonio (Larioant), how to add a crescendo to an organ. It is deceptively simple. The odf structure chooses to call the crescendo pedal "Swell", which is most confusing. So,

Create a "Setter Elements" section in your odf file.

Add the following lines;
;**********************************************
;SETTER ELEMENTS
;**********************************************

[SetterElement001]
; Swell; This is actually the Crescendo!
Type=Swell

[SetterElement002]
; Swell count; a label containing the position of the crescendo pedal, ;from 1-32
Type=CrescendoLabel
FreeXPlacement=y
FreeYPlacement=y
; change these two following lines to suit your console layout
DispXpos=800
DispYpos=500
DispLabelColour=red
DispLabelFontSize=Large
DispImageNum=1

You will also have to add the following line to the main Organ section of the odf;

NumberOfSetterElements=2

That's all there is to it! You will get a crescendo pedal graphic added to your console, positioned to the right of the other swell pedals you have.

You will need to set up the crescendo using the Crescendo Panel.

Hope this helps,

Mick.

 

[Cybug]

Hi Mick
Wow - thanks for the info - much appreciated. I'll give it a go ASAP
Regards
Chris

 

[Mick Berg]

Hi Mick
Wow - thanks for the info - much appreciated. I'll give it a go ASAP
Regards
Chris

You are welcome, let me know if I have gotten anything wrong or something needs further explanation.
Mick.

 

[e9925248]

I'm fortunate to still have the electro-mechanical Crescendo Pedal in my console. I'm thinking that if I were to assign each contact of the pedal to a combination piston, (I think I have enough "holes" left in my main MIDI interface) I could create a programmable crescendo. I think that the crescendo would not change the state of stops that were hand drawn.

The whole combination system in GO is "destructive". Compare GO to a mechanical register tracker, which latter has been enhanced with a combination system in a reversible, non-invasive way by simpliy adding magnets to the drawstop switches.

Probably adding some logic via switches to the ODF is more successful at the moment.

 

[e9925248]

I have read the previous posts but have failed to make much progress. A document for simply adding and setting a crescendo pedal to an existing organ would be a useful addition for chumps like me

Just suggest a crescendo content for eg. our demo organ
[list of stops and when at which slots we should turn them off/on] and then we can start a workshop for programming it.

 

[Mick Berg]

The whole combination system in GO is "destructive". Compare GO to a mechanical register tracker, which latter has been enhanced with a combination system in a reversible, non-invasive way by simpliy adding magnets to the drawstop switches.

Probably adding some logic via switches to the ODF is more successful at the moment.

Yes, as I thought about it some more, I realized that even this idea won't work.

<<Probably adding some logic via switches to the ODF is more successful at the moment>> I wouldn't know where to start. If you are willing to tackle it that would be great.

Mick Berg.

 

[Mick Berg]

........................
There is one nice effect possible that wouldn't happen on a real organ - at least none that I've played. It is possible here for a stop to be on for the first few steps, and then turn off. (It's been my experience that once a stop is on, it stays on as the crescendo is increased.) This would make it possible, for example, to turn on a celeste stop for small combinations on early crescendo steps, then later turn it off as the ensemble builds. On a real organ, turning it off would save wind, since a quiet celeste wouldn't contribute to a large ensemble anyway.

Bob

I think this would depend on whether the crescendo was "blind" or not, ie if it physically moved the drawknobs. If it did, you could set a crescendo position to push the drawknob of your celeste in.
On my Klann console it seems that I any position on the crescendo can be "blind" or not, ie I could wire it just to activate the stop, or to pull the drawknob out, or push it in. Not that I've ever done it, the crescendo is a complete luxury for me and I get more fun out of making it work than actually using it!

And there are disadvantages, eg, since it is hard wired, it only works for one organ. Also there would be continuous current being sent to the SAM all time the crescendo pedal was turning it on or off, which wouldn't be good. Yet another idea goes pear-shaped.....................

We really need to campaign for a non-destructive crescendo in GO.

Mick Berg.

 

[Mick Berg]

Just suggest a crescendo content for eg. our demo organ
[list of stops and when at which slots we should turn them off/on] and then we can start a workshop for programming it.

I hope someone more skilled as an organist than me will do this (suggest the crescendo content). It seems like an opportunity we should not miss out on.

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[Cybug]

For a useful crescendo, you need to use scope/scoped, eg:
0: flute 8' off
1: flute 8' on, flute 4' off
2: flute 8' on, flute 4' on, 8' off
3: flute 8' off, flute 4' on, 8' on, 4' off
4: flute 4' off, 8' on, 4' on, 2' off
5: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' off
6: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' on

Why not start with the idea as suggested. Would this not set the initial procedure/functionality?

 

[e9925248]

The following text should be displayed using a fixed width font like courier.

So lets program this (probably not very useful) 7 step cresencendo:
0: flute 8' off
1: flute 8' on, flute 4' off
2: flute 8' on, flute 4' on, 8' off
3: flute 8' off, flute 4' on, 8' on, 4' off
4: flute 4' off, 8' on, 4' on, 2' off
5: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' off
6: 8' on, 4' on, 2' on, 1' on

First, let us create a matrix, which lists the drawstop names in one direction and the crescendo slots in the other (in our case 6 drawstops x 7 slots).
Put a "-" at each position, where we want to turn it off (or fore it to off).
Put a "+" at each position, where we want to turn it on (or fore it to on).
Fill the remaining slots with "o".

This is the results:

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7            
flute 8': - + + - o o o
flute 4': o - + + - o o
princ 8': o o - + + + +
princ 4': o o o - + + +
princ 2': o o o o - + +
princ 1': o o o o o - +

Then create the programming table for scope. Take a copy of the table and replace all "-" and "+" with "X":

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7            
flute 8': X X X X o o o
flute 4': o X X X X o o
princ 8': o o X X X X X
princ 4': o o o X X X X
princ 2': o o o o X X X
princ 1': o o o o o X X

With this information, we can start programming. Reset all drawstops (G.C from the sequencer panel) and open the cresecendo panel.
Move to slot 1 (with "<"), enable "scope" [and maybe also "full" - see Lars screen casts for an explanation of full).

Then program the scope table:

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7            
flute 8': X X X X o o o
flute 4': o X X X X o o
princ 8': o o X X X X X
princ 4': o o o X X X X
princ 2': o o o o X X X
princ 1': o o o o o X X

Switch all stops on, which contain "X" for the first slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "o" for the first slot. Press "set" + "current" to programm the 1. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "X" for the 2. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "o" for the 2. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 2. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "X" for the 3. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "o" for the 3. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 3. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "X" for the 4. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "o" for the 4. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 4. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "X" for the 5. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "o" for the 5. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 5. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "X" for the 6. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "o" for the 6. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 6. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "X" for the 7. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "o" for the 7. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 7. slot.


Afterwarts program the content:

            1 2 3 4 5 6 7            
flute 8': - + + - o o o
flute 4': o - + + - o o
princ 8': o o - + + + +
princ 4': o o o - + + +
princ 2': o o o o - + +
princ 1': o o o o o - +

Make sure, that "set" is off, move with "<" to slot 1 and enable "scoped".
Switch all stops on, which contain "+" for the first slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "-" for the first slot. Press "set" + "current" to programm the 1. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "+" for the 2. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "-" for the 2. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 2. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "+" for the 3. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "-" for the 3. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 3. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "+" for the 4. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "-" for the 4. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 4. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "+" for the 5. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "-" for the 5. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 5. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "+" for the 6. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "-" for the 6. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 6. slot.
Switch all stops on, which contain "+" for the 7. slot. Switch all stops off, which contain "-" for the 7. slot. Press "set" + ">" to programm the 7. slot.

The state of all slots with "o" does not matter. Afterwards make sure, that set is off.

 

[Cybug]

Hi- This looks great - thanks for the taking the time to help us out with this procedure. The code windows are blank for me though:-( any idea? Thanks
Chris

 

[Cybug]

Hi- This looks great - thanks for the taking the time to help us out with this procedure. The code windows are blank for me though:-( any idea? Thanks
Chris

Hi - Sorted - Just copied the message and all is present.
Chris

 

[Dorsetmike]

The code windows appear blank as they are white text on a white background, if you highlght them with the mouse they become visible.