The mind boggles

[JHC]

Of course there is always the option of stopping all and every forms of pay outs, a compulsory saving scheme for your retirement so those that choose not to work will either starve before or shortly after retirement. now what government would have the guts to do that!

 

[White Knight]

Both Stalin and Mao would have been very happy with that "solution", as would have Hitler and the Nazis. If those are the types of government needed to implement these quite Draconian measures, I think I'll take a pass on them, thank you . I'd much rather have the occasional "welfare queen"{as welfare cheats are referred to in America and made so infamous by Reagan in his successful run for the presidency} than that form of rule, any day of the week.

 

[JHC]

You're too soft Steve toughen up,
Now seriously, how are we to keep the aged in their retirement?? at the moment in NZ we retire at 65 (what age did you retire at?) this will have to rise to 67 in the next couple of years, we (NZ) have a retirement fund that all workers are expected to take part in but of course there are those that will not. My Wife and I lived on the smell of an oily rag all of our working life saving as much as we could and doing with out things such as two or more TVs, Holiday each year, eating out every week etc etc. we are now comfortable.
We also have bludgers that milk the system for all they can get, why work if the tax payer will provide you with a living amount each week so that you can go surfing or have a few kids from various young men and then get a very tidy benefit for each child this sort of thing cannot go on for ever, I don't profess to know the answer but there has to be a better way. amen

 

[Dorsetmike]

We also have bludgers that milk the system for all they can get, why work if the tax payer will provide you with a living amount each week so that you can go surfing or have a few kids from various young men and then get a very tidy benefit for each child this sort of thing cannot go on for ever, I don't profess to know the answer but there has to be a better way. amen

Some form of compulsory birth control from puberty would be an idea, only to be stopped after being in a stable wage earning partnership for a defined period, so if you don't work and stay single you get no kids, for males we may have to wait for a reversible vasectomy to be viable, or until then some form of medication to prevent production of viable sperm.

Benefits only for proven disability, otherwise no work = no money, if there are no jobs available then conscription into some form of public service, emphasis there on tasks that will be of benefit to society, example, - emergency services not only geared to local needs but also a trained mobile force for disaster relief, example, - a labour force for major infrastructure projects, again not necessarily for only local work but also third world projects. If all else fails then military service - all the scut work, latrine orderly, kitchen porter, messenger boy, and at subsistence rates, fed and clothed plus a $/£/€ per day with no access to alcohol or drugs; any anti-social behaviour to be punished with xdays doing all day forced marches over rough terrain at the double with 30kilo/65lbs backpack.

 

[JHC]

The wrong people are breeding......
We had a scheme that the unemployed would be put into work gangs and do menial work such as cleaning up parks, reserves and the road side but of course the PC brigade said this was not fair and the government were lobbied by various contractors saying it was taking work away from them so it was scraped.
National service would be a good start Mike but I fear it will never happen in this country.
Prisoners cost NZ$90,000 per year to keep in prison..why??
If my Wife has to go into a rest home I have to pay all costs until our bank balance is reduced to a very small amount, if the same happens to the guy down the road who has never worked in his life then he gets it all for zilch plus an allowance to help out?? great stuff eh, Communism and Capitalism have not worked we really do need another way.
Yours Grumpy

 

[teddy]

The only place capitalism seems to work is Israel, where they all seem to help each other, sort of like communism but without it being forced on them. An enigma.

teddy

 

[JHC]

Fair comment teddy I would like to know what Southpark thinks of it

 

[teddy]

The present goverment seems to be reducing payments to scroungers, hopefully without penalising the needy. Welfare has reached such a peak over here that a lot of organisations such as the NHS are breaking down. We have got to limit immigration otherwise the country will go down the pan. We can not have people arriving in this country and costing hundreds of thousands of pounds to keep/repair/jail when we are barely able th help the people who deserve it. Charity begins at home, unless you are English, in which case you stand last in the line.

teddy

 

[JHC]

Immigrants should only be allowed if they have a job arranged and should be made to stay in that job or in that particular trade for say 2-3 years, Refugees are something else these people are escaping something poverty/cruel regimes etc and some are productive and some are a drain I don't know the answer to that but it has to be tougher.

 

[White Knight]

@ Colin, as long as each case is considered on an individual basis. As far as me "toughening up", during my 30+ years on the street, I saw a lot of decent people--who, through no fault of their own--were forced to have to accept welfare in order to have a roof over their heads and enough to eat for themselves and their children. Believe me--at least in America--the monthly stipend is not a great deal of money. The majority of people with whom I was in contact hated being "on the dole" and weren't driving Cadillacs and eating steak every night. Arte there cheats gaming the system--of course there are, as in any other human venture.
I retired at age 59; I paid my dues both financially and otherwise. That is to say that I contributed to my pension for many years, as well as Social Security and Medicare. In case you're interested my pension is slightly under $40, 000 per year, not exactly a "king's ransom" especially in New York.
In regards to being "too soft", I'd still rather be that than be "tough" and live under a Stalinist or Hitlerite regime; I'm sure there were no "cheats"--unless it was their friends and family--in their systems.

 

[JHC]

I realise things are tougher in the States so why don’t they raise your retirement age to 65 ? it is much too young to stop work at 59 this would then allow the state to raise more money for those poor souls on welfare. Would you get the same amount of pension if you moved out on NY and into a smaller town where the cost of living would be cheaper. I can only dream of US$40.000/yr.

 

[White Knight]

Colin, They have already raised the age at which my generation may collect full Social Security and Medicare benefits to age 66.
As to your point about 59 being a "lot too young" for retirement, it all depends on what type of career we are talking about. Anything involving the street and law enforcement tends to be more stressful and pressure driven--over a long period of time, say 20-30 years--than clerking or delivering the mail. That is why FDNY and NYPD have 20 year and out {regardless of age}. In my own situation, we had a 25 and 55 years of age retirement, so I stayed an extra 5 years in order to pay back a couple of pension loans I had taken out.
As for America providing for its less fortunate, let the people who are making over a quater of a million dollars a year pay a little more and let us use some of the billions of dollars we have thrown away in Iraq and Afghanistan here at home to help Americans. Banging people in my class for any more money {and, btw, $40,000 per year is not a whole lot of money, trust me} will simple push us from the lower middle class to the welfare dole which you seem to decry so much.

 

[JHC]

I can not comment on American conditions but a lot of jobs are stressful not just police and in NZ the only stress police get are road accidents and clearing the drunken youths off the street at 4am for this they get good pay and early retirement plus a police pension that is 50% paid by them and 50% paid by the tax paying public this is in addition to the state pension which they get at 65. I agree that the highly paid should pay more but when this is suggested in NZ the answer is that they would leave and go elsewhere??
Those in genuine need should be helped but the others need a good swift kick up the shufty. This would reduce the beneficiaries by at the very minimum 75%.

 

[JHC]

I got the police pension wrong the employee (Police) put in $1 and the employer (Tax payer) puts in $2 now that ain't bad
Steve tell your mates to come down here they will be in clover :cheers: