Modern Baroque????

[some guy]

I'm not being combative. And if you say that again, I'll punch you in the face.

Two serious points, though. One is that I'm not trying to get anyone to like contemporary music. That would be fine, of course, more than fine, but all I'm trying for is to convince everyone to stop with the slamming.

Two, I hear this "connection" point all the time, and I find it troublesome. Many great composers of the past whose connection to their pasts appears clear to us were roundly criticized for breaking completely with the past. It's been interesting to me to have noticed how easy it has become in my own lifetime to see how connected Schoenberg and Bartok and Stravinsky are to their pasts.

But so what? I'm not convinced that "connected to the past" is all it's cracked up to be. I know I listen to quite a lot of stuff that seems to have no connection to the past at all, or only to the very recent past, and it seems pretty OK to me. At least I know this, I never listen to anything in order to hear how it connects to the past. If I hear something that seems completely unprecedented, I rather welcome that than not!

 

[menefregio]

Hello! I was pleased to see - by sheer chance - this kind of topic being discussed. To make a long story short: yes, there are plenty of contemporary composers who write in the baroque style (also classical, romantic, etc.). I'm actually one of them, (I write all kind of music) Discussions on this topic can really go on forever, ranging from detractors to neutral positions to acceptance and even enthusiasm. In my case, as in the case of many of my fellow composers, I simply like to compose well-written music, in any style I'm familiar with (or a mix thereof), for myself and others to enjoy. No pretense to be better than anybody, deeper or greater than Bach... just good, solid music in a particular style - which is what EVERY single composer does, no matter how original he or she pretends or aspires to be. There's even a website, to which I also belong, dedicated to composer who write in the baroque style: voxsaeculorum.org

Anyway, I'd like to invite you and anybody else on this forum to listen and decide for yourselves. Here are some Youtube links for some music written in a true and accurate baroque style, no pastiche or parodies:

my music: http://www.youtube.com/user/bersa888?feature=mhee

Grant Colburn's (USA): http://www.youtube.com/user/grantco1313

Miguel Robaina (Sweden): http://www.youtube.com/user/MiguelRobaina

Giorgio Pacchioni (Italy/Brazil): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mllqx_PNlCE

Good listening to all!

GB

 

[JHC]

menefregio, it sounds great how about a video of the performing ensemble.

 

[JHC]

menefregio, it sounds great but how about a video of the performing ensemble

WHY can't I delete a double post ????

 

[menefregio]

menefregio, it sounds great how about a video of the performing ensemble.

Thanks!

Sorry about that double post ))

I had posted a video but took it down, due to bad sound - you could barely hear the harpsichords - and also it was shot from the back, because the front was taken by other cameras... I'm still waiting to get a copy... those Italians... ;-)

A CD of the entire concert (my piece + Bach's 3-harpsichord concertos and the Vivaldi-Bach 4-harps. concerto) came out last year:

http://shop.xgpublishing.it/?zone=02prod.php&m=mod_prod&cat=&prod=213

...but it is no longer available. The same CD will be published this year by Brilliant or CPO (I think). I'm not making any money out of the sales anyway because of copyrights delegations.... and you can just hear the music on Youtube )))

Miguel Robaina has a few videos of his music and his performing group on Youtube though.

Cheers!

GB

 

[Mat]

Here's two more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4KWS4CYkA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwEGV5ZiauU

 

[menefregio]

Here's two more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4KWS4CYkA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwEGV5ZiauU

Hello.

The first piece by Legrand is actually pretty accurate as far as form, harmony, etc. The only thing that may spoil it - for the purists - is the blown-up, "non-baroque" arrangement.

On the other hand, the music from the second video is (intentionally so) more like a caricature of style(s), not true baroque, something done for cinematographic purposes, etc. etc.

It could be interesting - I personally thing it is mostly a waste of time - to try to draw demarcation lines amongst styles, inspirations, direct quotes, originality, etc. I personally think you can do whatever you want with music. I used to be a stickler and expect every composer, dead or alive to be truly knowledgeable about EVERYTHING (theory, history, etc.)... not anymore. Life's too short to worry about "plagiarizing" another composer, getting too close to his or her style. Today we live in a world where contemporary composers mostly pretend to be original, while they are not... just think about the fact that Pierre Boulez (to take one of the most unforgiving about old styles, who preaches to be original and meaningful and modern at all costs) still uses the orchestra and its instruments which have been around for hundreds of years... shouldn't a true contemporary composer only use modern instruments (electronics)? Again, as long as there are people who enjoy your music, your art or your poetry, who the heck cares about being "true to your times"! I believe that's nothing but an illusion - or, like Cole Porter said: "Everything goes"

 

[Mat]

I posted the other piece (the one from de Funes movie) mainly because of the short, 30 seconds intro. Think it's got fair amount of modern Baroque in it. The rest of the piece? Maybe not so much. There's this moment at the end where two trumpets are playing a break of some sort, which, to me, sounds almost like jazz.

Apparently, there's more than just one version. I came across one that has completely different intro.

 

[menefregio]

I posted the other piece (the one from de Funes movie) mainly because of the short, 30 seconds intro. Think it's got fair amount of modern Baroque in it. The rest of the piece? Maybe not so much. There's this moment at the end where two trumpets are playing a break of some sort, which, to me, sounds almost like jazz.

Apparently, there's more than just one version. I came across one that has completely different intro.

Yup. This last one sounds like an Italian group from the '70's/80's called "Rondo Veneziano". I used to abhor them, because, to me, it was just a never ending series of a handful of baroque melodic/harmonic gestures... + drums! Nothing memorable, and I found it enormously annoying. Listen for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O9S...ext=1&list=AVGxdCwVVULXf9VD-1aOBzVMxsmxnCGyTk

And what about this one (from the famous diamond commercials):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vXHm8TzLzE

The guy has CD's out (he was a best seller for a short while) with his stuff - which I don't care about.

 

[menefregio]

...OR, for some quite surprising "Baroque Modern" (modern-sounding music from the baroque), about these:

From J.F. Rebel (1666-1747):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnlaCenlNHk

And this from G.F. Telemann (1681-1767):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wj1In5kRsk
(listen to the last two parts, from 6:43 on, and from 8:27)

Sometimes time seems not to matter much, doesn't it? This music also shows that traditional (old) composers from another period, were perfectly capable of pushing the limit of tonality and of what was consider "proper", "beautiful", "correct" , etc... although, in the above examples, the reason for such originality and strangeness (for the time) was to write highly descriptive music (chaos before creation, out of tune town musicians, animals, etc.), almost to justify those crazy sounds

It is now pretty much known that, in the privacy of their own rooms, those composers liked to truly experiment with tonality and forms at will (some of Mozart's late short piano pieces show this tendency. And then there's Beethoven's late compositions...)

 

[JHC]

menefregio, The Rebel is fantastic and being Goebels would be on authentic instruments it is the first time that I have heard this work , thanks, the Telemann Had no sound ?? Vivaldi's 4 seasons also has these energetic parts.

 

[menefregio]

menefregio, The Rebel is fantastic and being Goebels would be on authentic instruments it is the first time that I have heard this work , thanks, the Telemann Had no sound ?? Vivaldi's 4 seasons also has these energetic parts.

Sorry about the Telemann... the sound works for me. Anyway, those two parts are from his Alster Suite, which you can find somewhere on Youtube, iTunes or elsewhere. The first time I heard the beginning of the slow one, I couldn't guess at all the period...

True, Vivaldi, Bach and D. Scarlatti wrote plenty of harsh dissonances, "forbidden" progressions and some quite startling passages. But the Rebel's piece (also Telemann's) I gave the link for above, is truly out there as far as being "modern". There are many examples (A. Scarlatti, J. H. Kapsberger, Gesualdo) of composers from the past writing what we think today as "modern music". At the time it was simply strange, shocking - in other words, baroque!

Anyhow, the point I've been trying to make is that the sounds of a chromatic scale (Western system) have been around for sometimes, and it shouldn't surprise people to hear them in all kind of combinations, some resembling music from the past, others from the future