Memorisation: yes or no?

Andrew Roussak

New member
Ok, Andrew, I tried your tactic last night. It was fun, but I just ended up recomposing the pieces. Couldn't remember the actual chords used, and I couldn't even remember the chords I made up, so I ended up playing it through with different harmonization each time. Fun, but probably not what you meant. Should I try writing down the chords from the score and playing from that? I'll probably get the inversions wrong. I could just go all the way and use figured bass, though I've never been very good at that. Still, could be fun.

Hi Zlia,

glad that you tried it! Could you in very general terms describe, what kind of music do you approximately play? Which pieces and what is app. your level? Then I can be more specific, though I admit I have never given the lessons online.;)

Good luck
Andrew
 

zlya

New member
Hi Andrew,

On piano, I'm still pretty low level. I'd like to learn to play all sorts of music, but so far I've mostly learned classical pieces. I can read Mozart slow movements, and with practice I've learned some easy Chopin preludes and, of course, the Adagio from Beethoven's Moonlight you mentioned above.

I'm primarily a woodwind player, so I suppose I generally think in terms of melody lines rather than chords. I did some keyboard harmony in college (transposing, reading figured bass, harmonizing a given melody) but I was remarkably bad at it.

I appreciate your advice, but I don't want you to feel that you have to give me lessons. I'm intrigued by your technique, and I don't really understand it, but you shouldn't feel obligated to teach me. If I can't learn to memorize, it's not actually the end of the world. Thanks again,
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
Hi Andrew,

On piano, I'm still pretty low level. I'd like to learn to play all sorts of music, but so far I've mostly learned classical pieces. I can read Mozart slow movements, and with practice I've learned some easy Chopin preludes and, of course, the Adagio from Beethoven's Moonlight you mentioned above.

I'm primarily a woodwind player, so I suppose I generally think in terms of melody lines rather than chords. I did some keyboard harmony in college (transposing, reading figured bass, harmonizing a given melody) but I was remarkably bad at it.

I appreciate your advice, but I don't want you to feel that you have to give me lessons. I'm intrigued by your technique, and I don't really understand it, but you shouldn't feel obligated to teach me. If I can't learn to memorize, it's not actually the end of the world. Thanks again,

Hey, Zlia, I have no problem about it. Actually , I've found that another thread of you ( beginner pianist ), so I got the point now. Surely you can memorize. Let me think a bit, I'll describe it a bit more specific , maybe today evening or tomorrow . Don't answer this post - I 'll be back again soon:D .
Bye
Andrew
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
Hi one more time Zlia,

I 've just looked once again through your posts to this thread and to another one ( beginner pianist ). Well, if you manage to play the Adagio from the Moonlight..., then you are not the very beginner... Much compliments to that!!!
I liked the advices of Rojo, and I can add to the recommended list Die Kinderszenen of R.Schumann - there are pretty much of them , you can choose the easiest one and practice to memorise it.

You mentioned that you would like to improvise too - my very first choice is Improvising Blues Piano by Tim Richards. It is the best Do-It-Yourself book I ever had, 2 cm thick, full of examples and pictures of the strange looking guys torturing their shabby looking pianos . It begins with the very basics and ends with the Honky Tonk Train Blues, which is a challenge for a pianist of any level. Much to learning scales, chords and improvising - Schott & Co London, 1997 , ISBN 0-946535-97-3.

To your memorisation problems - now I guess they can be much similar to those which had a few of my pupils who learned to play piano as the second instrument (after a flute or violin ). They would normally first think of the melodic line and not of the harmonies ,and tend to play it from the score, which can work until you have to make the first leap. So the only way to get a flow in your performance is memorising the patterns, if not the whole piece.

Now a bit more specific about what you called "my method" ( which is actually not mine ) -

as you play piano by heart ,you must normally think of the harmony and melodic line simultaneously. It's extremely difficult to memorise the piece if you have no idea of what are you actually playing. The melody is normally only the upper voice, the rest are chord tones. Surely you must keep in mind the inversions, voicings , bass figuration as well, but it is significantly easier if you see the basic line.

Some practice-

- try to analyse the harmony of the piece you are playing. The good example here is Präludium 1 C-Dur from WTK of JSBach, which consists of the arpeggiated chords , no melody above. Moonlight Sonata can suit as well , but I'm not sure C#m is the easiest key to begin with. In Bach's Präludium, try to find out which chords you are going through. Write them down as the chord symbols, play each one as a chord and as an arpeggio in both directions until you see all the chord tones on your keyboard. Then close the score and try to play by heart the first 4 bars - I guess it will be no problem by now.

- try to think of the chords in terms " Root - Dominant - Sub..." - you know. Do it as you're just beginning to exercise the piece. Every harmony has its place in the piece and its logic. You may as well try to play the said first 4 bars of Bach as a chord progression and even place a melody of your own above it. The main point is, you should know, which chord is expected to come next and where your hand must approximately go. Then you of course must think of the bass figuration, invertions etc - but the good half of your job is already done.

I really do memorise the music in this way and can state it works on Chopin not worse than on Ellington. Hope it will help you too -

best regards
Andrew
 
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zlya

New member
Hi Andrew,

That's a lot of good advice, thank you. I really like the method you describe (whoever's it is). It speaks to my inner analyst (generally much more dominant than my inner performer!). My biggest problem with piano has always been that there are so many different parts! It might make it easier to try to think of them as chords rather than as all different lines.

I won't have a chance to try this until Monday (going away this weekend) but I have great hopes for success.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.
 

zlya

New member
Hi Andrew,

I tried your technique with the Bach Prelude in C, and it worked, at least for the first four bars! I guess it's easier to remember I ii V-7 I than to remember all the notes involved. I still don't know how it will work for more complicated pieces with more non-harmonic tones, but so far so good!
Thankyou!
 

Andrew Roussak

New member
Hi Andrew,

I tried your technique with the Bach Prelude in C, and it worked, at least for the first four bars! I guess it's easier to remember I ii V-7 I than to remember all the notes involved. I still don't know how it will work for more complicated pieces with more non-harmonic tones, but so far so good!
Thankyou!

You are welcome ,Zlya -

it works approximately the same, the Bach's Prelude in C is just the best and easiest example for me. As mentioned , you have in other cases to memorise the inversions, tensions, transitional tones etc., so it is certainly not that easy - but nevertheless, analysing the piece in this way you are actually following the logical scheme of the composer, you begin to understand better, what he wanted to say here and why. And this is good anyway.

About the longer compositions - as you see, you can actually divide each one of them in an arbitrary number of the smaller parts and exercise each of these parts separately until you have a flow in it. Then put them step by step all together and work on transitions.

It takes a lot of time for sure:cry: - but I have no doubt you can manage it.;)

Good luck,:)
Andrew
 

zlya

New member
This morning I played the Bach Prelude in C from memory. This is the first piano piece I've EVER played without music. Ever. I'm absolutely amazed.
Thank you, Andrew. And thank you Rojo--I can't do it without looking at the keys, so that was a great suggestion too.
Wow. Thank you again.
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Sometimes that is the case, wtwt5237 ... without the distraction of printed notes, the artist is able to put more of his/her soul and heart into the music being played. Don't get me wrong, lots of us can still put as much feeling into our music with the score in front of us - in my case, the music is there as a crutch or aid ... similar to having a map in the car on a long trip. We know the direction, but need to refer to the map from time to time.
 
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