Lesser known composers deserving more recognition

[Althea]

I recently heard Ives' Unanswered Question performed by the National Symphony Orchestra, and was a little disappointed. While there were some good ideas and cool sounds, it didn't really fit together very well. There were four flutes that played this very, um, flutey part at random places if I remember correctly, and it wasn't the most pleasant to listen to. There was a trumpet playing from outside the room "answering the question" I suppose, but it didn't really fit in with the rest of the piece. I guess these are the effects Ives was going for, but it didn't really appeal to me, though I can understand why others would like it. Will go look at the program notes...

 

[Althea]

pdq bach's version of Beethoven's 5th symphony is great.

I recently heard Ives' Unanswered Question performed by the National Symphony Orchestra. It wasn't exactly my style, but I would be willing to discuss it if anyone is interested, I kept the program notes too.

 

[Althea]

sorry about that double, I didn't realize that the first one had gone through, computer problems

 

[Althea]

sorry about that double, I didn't realize that the first one had gone through, computer problems

 

[corno]

Hi Althea,

I can see you've been exposed to "The Unanswered Question"... - it's been a while since I heard it last, but to my recollection it's the trumpet player who's "asking the question" and the wind/flute group who's supposed to be answering (but don't) and the strings represents the "universe" in some way...
I've found a link which explains it a little better:

http://www.missvalleyorchestra.com/html/the_unanswered_question.html

It's all the way down to the bottom of the page (the top being bibliographical notes) - and I've copied the most interesting parts here:

A few of the modernistic devices that Ives is known for include polytonality, polyrhythms, and quarter-tones. Ives was content to allow the printed notes on the page to define an approximation of what the music should be like – some of the impending result could be left to chance. That bothered many performing musicians, who were used to the precision of the printed page.

“In ‘The Unanswered Question,’ for instance, he says in the preface, about the wind parts that go faster and faster, that they should not play absolutely together, but he writes them rhythmically together,” said one European participant in a panel discussing foreign views of Ives’ music. “There seems to be a sort of contradiction between what he wanted and what he actually did…It is going to make things very complicated, to look at the score and then find he’s not playing exactly what’s in it. What are we going to do?…”

Another conceptual device that Ives used was physically separating the instrumental forces performing a given work into asynchronous units. Of course, other composers had employed off-stage performers to simulate sounds as if they were coming from a distance. But not the cacophony of competing forces that Ives envisioned. This relative disunity is a feature of “The Unanswered Question,” in which the questioner (the trumpet), the answerer (the wind section), and the universe (the strings) operate somewhat – though not completely – independently.

Although the composer’s instructions prefacing the score to “The Unanswered Question” are lengthy, they are worth reproducing here (in part) if for no other reason than to tap into the limitless imagination of this gifted American composer.

Charles Ives writes:

The part of the flute quartet may be taken by two flutes, upper staff, oboe and clarinet, lower staff. The trumpet part may be played by an English horn, an oboe or clarinet, if not playing in “The Answers.” The string quartet or string orchestra (con sordini [with mutes]), if possible, should be “off stage”, or away from the trumpet and flutes. ... The strings play ppp [pianissimo – very softly] throughout with no change in tempo. They are to represent “The Silences of the Druids – Who Know, See, and Hear Nothing.” The trumpet intones “The Perennial Question of Existence”, and states it in the same tone of voice each time. But the hunt for “The Invisible Answer” undertaken by the flutes and other human beings, becomes gradually more active, faster, and louder through an animando [more animated] to a con fuoco [with fire]. This part need not be played in the exact time position indicated. It is played in somewhat of an impromptu way; if there be no conductor, one of the flute players may direct their playing. “The Fighting Answerers”, as the time goes on, and after a “secret conference”, seem to realize a futility, and begin to mock “The Question” – the strife is over for the moment. After they disappear, “The Question” is asked for the last time, and “The Silences” are heard beyond in “Undisturbed Solitude.”

 

[Althea]

Another question--is it common in that style of music to be so unspecific? There is a big difference between a trumpet and and English horn afterall, and with the possible absence of a conductor it almost seems as though Ives was not even sure himself how he wanted his piece to sound. Is it becoming more popular to leave the performers this much liberty?

 

[corno]

I think that the grouping in this piece superseeds the specific requirement of the individual parts... it's not important who is playing the different groupings as it is important to get the "idea" across of "one asking the questions (of the meaning of exsistence)" and one group of "severly clever chaps who refuses to answer, it appears" and the "universe" as such...

I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to "that style of music"... but no, it's not common as such... the before mentioned composer Percy Grainger has made a lot of flexible-scorings of his music which "folds out" in a way like an accordian - being able to be played by almost piano alone and being able to be expanded up to full symphony orchestra... it's a matter of destribution of the music - where the music/composer prior (and still does in most of the cases) prescribes a set instrumentation - where an arranger has to go in and make modifications to make it playable for other ensembles than what it was originally intended...

 

[corno]

the 5th symphony of Beethoven in the pdq bach rendition... isn't that the one with "bobby corno"? - the one played out like a baseball game? hehe...

the "grand serenade for an awfull lot of winds and percussion" is also real fun... - a little spike jones inspiration with the percussion all over the floor at one time

- even the titles of the movements are fun

1: Grand Entrance
2: Simply Grand Minuet
3: Romance in the Grand Manner
4: Rondo Mucho Grando

 

[Althea]

it is the one with bobby corno

now I guess the instrumentation makes a little more sense, just like how Bach chorales can be played on almost any four instruments, but that's a little different, but oh well.

 

[Jamie]

the attached midi may come out ok.? if you have a midi program that allows you to see the notation/scoring,it makes it more interesting. regards Jamie

p.s. also depends on your sound card too ,of course.
ALSO READ all of Cornos comments & links.

 

[corno]

great midi Jamie... nice to hear it again...

 

[hornsalvig]

Thank you for bringing Rued Langaard up, corno. Wonder why Frederik didn't do it himself, beeing an organ player.
I think he's one of the best danish composers ever...
His "Antikrist" is fabulous.

Salvig

 

[mustel1216922]

Hi Pamadu, I read this last week:
[Later This Year I will be doing ALL his Organ & Harmonium Works,PLUS...Complete Piano/Flute/Clarinet/Violin/Cello.a Few Choral/a Few Full Orchestral/etc. and also a Few Works that were Handed Down to me by His "Australian Connection" never Published and I have the "Signed Manuscripts". Will Let You Have More Deatails when That Project is Complete.It will be done on an Australian organ or Many.Also an Australian Label. Cheers. pamadu/Paul.

[/quote]
How is this project coming along. I would be VERY interested in KE harmonium works as the Michel CPO set finished at Vol. 5.

 

[Flute Divo]

My addition to the list of lesser known composers would Alexander Tansman (Polish born) who moved to France to seek greter musical acceptance. World war II forced him to America In the 1930's. His music can be reminiscent of Bartok and Stravinsky but he has wonderful sound lexicon all his own. His Sonata for Bassoon is absolutely lush and I played his "Hollywoodesque" "Septet" for the unique combimnation of Flute, Oboe, Clarinet Bassoon Trumpet, Viola and Cello a well worthy piece.. He returned to France after the war a spent his remaining years there.

 

[hornsalvig]

just a quick thought----->

Gunnar de Frumerie!! I only know his horn-concerto, but it is one of the best (in my opinion) written in 1971 I think, to Ib Lanzky-Otto. The only recording I know of is with him too (and then the recording with me of course, but you are not allowed to hear that one...I play like a god - of course!!!!(???), but the amateurorchestra I played with, wasn't used to play that kind of music)
Dispite og the name - he is swedish

Salvig

 

[Todd]

There are a number, but I'll mention Karol Szymanowski as especially deserving. His music straddles the late-romantic and modern eras, and can sound exotic and familiar at the same time. At times, in orchestral music, one can think of him as being a blend of Strauss and Scriabin with some eastern influence thrown in. In his piano music, late Scriabin and late Debussy come to mind in some of his best works (Masques, say) though Chopin can be heard in earlier works, and he pushes the bounds himself in some of his later works. And his vocal works are simply amazing. His setting of the Stabat Mater is amazing, and his orchestral songs are, at their best, intoxicating, late-romantic masterpieces. (And how beautiful the Polish language is when sung!) His great Third Symphony, Song of the Night is a sumptuous, overwhelming piece. He deserves wider recognition.

 

[rojo]

Flute Divo-

If you`re referring to the Alexandre Tansman I know (and I`m pretty sure you are), he also wrote some great little pieces for the piano- I have taught some of them to my students, so, here here- it`s charming stuff!

 

[rojo]

Just to add, I know it`s been a while since these composers were brought up, but I have to agree about

1- Cécile Chaminade. She wrote mostly short pieces for the piano and I enjoy playing her `Scarf Dance` for piano, which is (I think), one of her best-known works. To be a female composer in her time (I believe there weren`t many) couldn`t have been easy.

2- Vaughn Williams. He wrote The Lark Ascending for violin which is nice, and an oboe concerto which I have played parts of (used to play oboe and english horn) and is good. There is also a tuba concerto by him!

3- Saint-Saens. Nice stuff also

 

[rojo]

Oh yeah, the Saint Saens oboe sonata is good too, and I love Poulenc`s trio for oboe bassoon and piano!

 

[rojo]

OMG, I was forgetting the Poulenc Sonata for Oboe and Piano! Beautiful stuff- another emotional roller coaster ride of a piece; sometimes gentle and sweet, other times angry, other times even slightly whimsical.

Ok, I think that`s all from me on the subject!