Folk Music that isn't, quite...
- Thread starter Ella Beck
- Start date
John Watt
Member
This is one of my favorite YouTube videos of all time.
Before I had access to my own computer, I'd ask other people to play it for me.
When I started crying, everyone thought it was Bruce and his song that got to me.
It was, in a way.
Me asking other people to play this song on their computer meant I was homeless,
being reduced to poverty by all the criminal activity against me,
after I ran for mayor as a protest candidate to complain about being a victim, family and friends.
In 1970, I was backstage at Brock University, and ended up standing beside Bruce Cockburn.
That's when Bruce was driving across Canada in his camper pickup with his wife and dog.
"High Winds and White Skies", his double album as an acoustic guitarist, is still a favorite.
Someone called out, John, how does it feel to see someone else playing guitar like you?
It got quiet. Everyone was watching Bruce turn and stare at me.
I said if I can play a steady bass beat and finger-pick like an acoustic guitarist,
then an acoustic guitarist can finger-pick and play a steady bass beat.
Bruce got a big smile on his face and turned back to keep talking with the professors.
He also came back the next year, but I couldn't make it. I had my own gig.
Knowing we shared that moment in time, knowing what bands and stages I left behind,
and seeing what my life had become, is the real reason I would start crying.
I still do. He uses some phase shifting and echo for his solo here, totally tasty.
And you really can't get a better introduction than this.
Bruce went to the Brazilian rain-forest as an environmental activist,
and when they told him about American intervention in Guatemala,
he went there and wrote this song.
Before I had access to my own computer, I'd ask other people to play it for me.
When I started crying, everyone thought it was Bruce and his song that got to me.
It was, in a way.
Me asking other people to play this song on their computer meant I was homeless,
being reduced to poverty by all the criminal activity against me,
after I ran for mayor as a protest candidate to complain about being a victim, family and friends.
In 1970, I was backstage at Brock University, and ended up standing beside Bruce Cockburn.
That's when Bruce was driving across Canada in his camper pickup with his wife and dog.
"High Winds and White Skies", his double album as an acoustic guitarist, is still a favorite.
Someone called out, John, how does it feel to see someone else playing guitar like you?
It got quiet. Everyone was watching Bruce turn and stare at me.
I said if I can play a steady bass beat and finger-pick like an acoustic guitarist,
then an acoustic guitarist can finger-pick and play a steady bass beat.
Bruce got a big smile on his face and turned back to keep talking with the professors.
He also came back the next year, but I couldn't make it. I had my own gig.
Knowing we shared that moment in time, knowing what bands and stages I left behind,
and seeing what my life had become, is the real reason I would start crying.
I still do. He uses some phase shifting and echo for his solo here, totally tasty.
And you really can't get a better introduction than this.
Bruce went to the Brazilian rain-forest as an environmental activist,
and when they told him about American intervention in Guatemala,
he went there and wrote this song.
Ella Beck
Member
So this is one of your favourite videos ever?
I presume what makes it special is your personal reminiscence, rather than its musical qualities, which seem nothing special to me.
It certainly qualifies as 'folk music that isn't' - but not as 'folk music that isn't quite', the title of the thread.
It's just a modern protest song played with an acoustic guitar - so not folk at all!
The format is far too rambling to be considered as 'in the traditional style'.
You spend a bit of time analysing the guitar playing, so maybe you should have posted it on one of your guitar threads?
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PS - I read your post about private-messaging another member. You're not supposed to reveal the content of private messages on the open boards, you know.
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John Watt
Member
I thought his use of electronic echo for the solo made it not quite folk music.
You might have to cut me a little slack when it comes to all my fonting.
You seem to be an instrumental musician who doesn't sing.
If you sang, then words would not only become important,
but song-writing might have some responsibilities as a human being alive on this earth.
And you have to admit, not bad for an old man.
Dan Ackroyd, "Saturday Night Live", "Ghostbusters", "The Avro", was born a half hour away from me,
but I didn't talk about him. He was there just to introduce Doctor and Honourary Professor Bruce Cockburn.
I can understand where you're coming from, in England, while this is very Canadian for all Canadians.
I still got tears in my eyes.
You might have to cut me a little slack when it comes to all my fonting.
You seem to be an instrumental musician who doesn't sing.
If you sang, then words would not only become important,
but song-writing might have some responsibilities as a human being alive on this earth.
And you have to admit, not bad for an old man.
Dan Ackroyd, "Saturday Night Live", "Ghostbusters", "The Avro", was born a half hour away from me,
but I didn't talk about him. He was there just to introduce Doctor and Honourary Professor Bruce Cockburn.
I can understand where you're coming from, in England, while this is very Canadian for all Canadians.
I still got tears in my eyes.
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Ella Beck
Member
You're wrong - I do sing. And I have written songs in my time. All in a quiet way, of course, at meetings of friends or in pub sessions.
Please do stop making assumptions about me - you don't understand at all 'where I'm coming from', is the conclusion I've drawn since joining the site nearly three months ago.
As for the 'tears in your eyes' - that's interesting, maybe even touching, but it doesn't mean that you should have posted the song here. It would have done far better on one of your posts that dealt with your guitar playing or other reminiscences.
And what's this about 'cutting you some slack'?
I am not doing you any wrong, but simply replying to your post in all politeness.
I do think it wasn't a good idea to reveal another member's private messages, and to name a thread after him, and second-guess his opinions. On TC, this would have been taken down immediately.
While you have the edit facility, why not make a few changes, in case he objects?
Have a nice day.
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John Watt
Member
I don't mind you having your opinions, or how you dole out information about yourself.
As far as I can see, it's been my prompting you that has inspired you to do that,
instead of just showing a video or photo and saying it's something you like.
Motivating people, inspiring people, or making people angry enough express themselves in a new way,
seems to be one of my great talents in life.
I can say that, because the federal government of Canada deleted a law used against me,
and the Province of Ontario created two new laws after coming to visit me in Welland.
All related to defamatory libel and libel and the governance of the behavior of crown attorneys.
"The Queen VS. John Watt". I won.
It's nice to see you sing and write songs.
However, now you are putting your attitude on me about another member.
And that's in progressive rock, somewhere I haven't seen you post in,
and considering all your content here, I can't see you being into progressive rock.
Every once in a while I accost Prog Head because, while I have played progressive rock,
and see his continuing threads about progressive rock bands with the enormous amount of views he gets,
we seldom interact.
When I'm asking for his opinion, I'm serious, even if we have gone through the Gates of Delirium.
I know what you're saying about tartan-swathed shortbread tins. My mother and her relatives made the best.
Maple tarts, mince-meat tarts, butter tarts, yum!
As far as I can see, it's been my prompting you that has inspired you to do that,
instead of just showing a video or photo and saying it's something you like.
Motivating people, inspiring people, or making people angry enough express themselves in a new way,
seems to be one of my great talents in life.
I can say that, because the federal government of Canada deleted a law used against me,
and the Province of Ontario created two new laws after coming to visit me in Welland.
All related to defamatory libel and libel and the governance of the behavior of crown attorneys.
"The Queen VS. John Watt". I won.
It's nice to see you sing and write songs.
However, now you are putting your attitude on me about another member.
And that's in progressive rock, somewhere I haven't seen you post in,
and considering all your content here, I can't see you being into progressive rock.
Every once in a while I accost Prog Head because, while I have played progressive rock,
and see his continuing threads about progressive rock bands with the enormous amount of views he gets,
we seldom interact.
When I'm asking for his opinion, I'm serious, even if we have gone through the Gates of Delirium.
I know what you're saying about tartan-swathed shortbread tins. My mother and her relatives made the best.
Maple tarts, mince-meat tarts, butter tarts, yum!
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Ella Beck
Member
I know nothing about Progressive Rock, which is why I don't post there.
However, forum etiquette does concern me, and it's relevant to the whole membership.
On TC and other internet forums I belong to, it's considered unacceptable to start threads which use other members' names and label them as having one point of view or another, even in the 'members-only' part of the forum, i.e. Area 51.
It seems important to me, if the forum is ever to attract new members, that it be a welcoming place where posters won't suddenly find themselves being publicly buttonholed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I prefer to get my point across without unnecessary verbiage.
Trying to suggest that there's something wrong with that is commenting adversely on my posting style, which is against the terms and conditions of MIMF. I quote the relevant section below.
Guidelines for General Behavior
Be polite to your fellow members.
If you disagree with them, please state your opinion in a »civil« and respectful manner.
Do not post comments about other members person or »posting style« on the forum (unless said comments are unmistakably positive).
Argue opinions all you like but do not get personal and never resort to »ad homs«.
If you have any complaints about other users or their posts, contact the staff directly (by private message) or use the »report post« function.
If in doubt about any of these guidelines - or generally if you need help with anything on this board - you can always send a PM (private message) to a member of the staff, or use the contact form.
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John Watt
Member
Wow! I've been reprimanded, cut and pasted and fontally basted.
All that started with me commenting that you were telling me off a little,
and now you're looking orchestral with it.
Not yet a hater, or a negator, am I seeing my first cadmin?
At least you admitted you went way off-your-topic.
Considering that I've already been told that what I consider to be folk music that isn't quite folk music,
isn't quite folk music that isn't quite folk music,
I'll try again.
These are modern, global lyrics, and I really, really like them.
All that started with me commenting that you were telling me off a little,
and now you're looking orchestral with it.
Not yet a hater, or a negator, am I seeing my first cadmin?
At least you admitted you went way off-your-topic.
Considering that I've already been told that what I consider to be folk music that isn't quite folk music,
isn't quite folk music that isn't quite folk music,
I'll try again.
These are modern, global lyrics, and I really, really like them.
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Ella Beck
Member
Folk Music is the type of music I know most about - I wrote an M.A. thesis on folk ballads, and have sung, listened to and danced to traditional music for sixty years, so when somebody says something that I consider to be incorrect, I find it hard to just let it pass.
I'd like to explore the subject a little more.
Definition of Folk Music from Dictionary on Google:
folk music
noun
I'd like to explore the subject a little more.
Definition of Folk Music from Dictionary on Google:
folk music
noun
- music that originates in traditional popular culture or that is written in such a style. Folk music is typically of unknown authorship and is transmitted orally from generation to generation.
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- I agree with Google, but would like to add my own expanded definition of Folk Music, based on my studies & experience.
- Authorship:
- Somebody made up the music originally, of course - but exactly who has generally been lost in the mists of time, and the song or tune will pick up variations and alterations in the course of its transmission.
- Community:
Folk music is different from art music - it's not meant to be for cultured people to appreciate, but is found among ordinary people living in the countryside - though a working class urban environment also produces folk music. Folk music lives among the people and has not till recently been performed for commercial considerations. - Style:
As far as people writing 'folk music' today are concerned, it's a matter of style.
I'd suggest that it's important, if a written-today song or tune is to be considered 'folk' that it has the following characteristics:
1. Played on acoustic instruments / sung live.
2. Has a simple format. Folk tunes are dance tunes and have 8-bar phrases repeated twice (generally) - AABB. The rhythms are 4/4 (reels, strathspeys, hornpipes) or 6/8 (jigs) or 9/8 (slip jigs)
3 Songs will be lyrical love songs or tell stories of love affairs, ghosts, or fights, as in the Child traditional ballads. Typically they have verses and will also often have refrains or choruses. They have a definite metre - the most common are Long Metre (4 stresses, a quatrain consisting of 4.4.4.4.) or Common Metre, where the second and fourth lines of a quatrain would have only 3 stresses - 4.3.4.3.
4. The singing style will not adopt mannerisms from pop or a transatlantic accent when the singer comes from the UK. Most traditional singers were not accompanied, though if they were, the most common instruments would be fiddle or (someone else playing) a whistle or flute. The guitar is now the instrument of choice, but 'a guitar solo' in the middle of a song is already moving it away from the folk genre.
5. The subject may vary today from stories of love & battle, and be a 'protest song', but it still has to have a folk song style if it's to be considered a folk song. One good example is Bob Dylan. 'Blowing in the Wind' is a folk song (in terms of the 1960s music scene) because it's got verses, a definite point, and a chorus. Something like 'It's all right, Ma (I'm only bleeding)' from the same era is more like a poem put to music. It's not got the simple formulaic style of a folk song, though I admire it very much.
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'Folk music that isn't, quite'
When I started the thread, I was thinking of folk songs that come from tradition, such as Child Ballads or songs collected from oral tradition, but that are treated as fashionable music in some way - e.g. Electric Folk, Folk Rock, Folk Metal, Progressive Folk.
I wasn't thinking of someone who sings his own material, which doesn't resemble folk music stylistically, on an acoustic guitar. - Or of music performed by a Mongolian rock band..
- I mean, why on earth would I?
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