rojo
(Ret)
Interesting article. What do you all think?
http://music.guardian.co.uk/classical/story/0,,2060997,00.html
http://music.guardian.co.uk/classical/story/0,,2060997,00.html
Memorisation: yes or no?
- Thread starter rojo
- Start date
Sybarite
New member
Personally, I can't see the fuss about memorisation. We don't expect an entier orchestra to play from memory; concert solo singers don not always sing from memory.
To my mind, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using the score and nobody should feel pressurised into not having a score in front of them.
giovannimusica
Commodore de Cavaille-Coll
Very generally speaking, I don't have a problem when a musician has a score in front of them, soloist or not. I myself feel fettered using a score when performing. I love to memorise works but sometimes I don't have a chance to do so if I'm called to sub for a colleague.
Bottom line: don't sweat it! it'll hurt your performance big time!!!
Regards!
Giovanni
Bottom line: don't sweat it! it'll hurt your performance big time!!!
Regards!
Giovanni
The only piece I ever committed to memory was Prelude, Fuge et Variation by Cesar Frank, and that was for an organ competition years back.
For a concerts and church service playing, I always use the music. I have this fear of being distracted at some point and having a memory lapse - aka 'senior moments :grin:
For a concerts and church service playing, I always use the music. I have this fear of being distracted at some point and having a memory lapse - aka 'senior moments :grin:
zlya
New member
This is a tremendous relief for me. I've always had horrible trouble memorizing anything, and I've always felt extremely guilty about it. Particularly there's that dreadful moment when someone hands me an instrument and says, "oo, here, play something for me", and I'm forced to confess that while I do play that instrument, I don't actually have any music memorized.
Andrew Roussak
New member
I found it a really very interesting article -many thanks , Rojo. I believe actually, in order to perform a piece on public, you have first to learn it by heart anyway. I don't see if there is smth. wrong to use a score at the concert, where the laps in memory can really produce a catastrophic effect. The longer the piece - the harder it is, to memorise it. The longest piece I could ever play by heart ( not in the concert ) was the Sonata KV 333 of Mozart, app. 20 pages long. Since I myself belong merely to the camp of "non-score-players", I know exactly how your memory can let you down when you are under pressure.
Playing jazz is however totally different - as it must be mostly improvised, and the pieces are generally shorter - once having learned a piece, I usually don't need a score anymore by playing.
Playing jazz is however totally different - as it must be mostly improvised, and the pieces are generally shorter - once having learned a piece, I usually don't need a score anymore by playing.
rojo
(Ret)
You`re welcome Andrew. True that there is the time factor involved in memorizing a piece, as well as a 'length of work' factor.
I have no problem with listening to anyone playing with or without a score. For personal choice, I like to memorize because it frees me up to concentrate fully on the music, instead of putting a portion of my efforts on the reading/following of the score. That being said, in concert, I prefer to have the score in front of me, for the comfort of having something to focus my brain on. Which can lead to problems if the score is many pages, and there isn`t a page turner.
I encourage all my students to learn the music by heart; it shows they really know it, enough to have printed it into their brain. For exams, they have to do so.
zlya- guilt is, imo, a fairly wasted emotion. However, may I be so bold as to suggest you learn a very, very short piece by heart? I say so only because I find it fun, and so do my students. And that way, you can impress folks and leave them wanting more. :grin:
I have no problem with listening to anyone playing with or without a score. For personal choice, I like to memorize because it frees me up to concentrate fully on the music, instead of putting a portion of my efforts on the reading/following of the score. That being said, in concert, I prefer to have the score in front of me, for the comfort of having something to focus my brain on. Which can lead to problems if the score is many pages, and there isn`t a page turner.
I encourage all my students to learn the music by heart; it shows they really know it, enough to have printed it into their brain. For exams, they have to do so.
zlya- guilt is, imo, a fairly wasted emotion. However, may I be so bold as to suggest you learn a very, very short piece by heart? I say so only because I find it fun, and so do my students. And that way, you can impress folks and leave them wanting more. :grin:
zlya
New member
Rojo, do you have any suggestions as to how to go about memorizing a piece and getting it to stick?
Most of my performance is in groups: choirs, pit orchestras, etc., where sight reading is much more important than memorization. I suppose I conduct pretty much from memory, but I usually have the score nearby, just to be safe. (Though I have had a few embarrassing lapses, which my singers always found hilarious).
When it comes to memorization, I just don't know where to begin. I've tried a bit since I began learning piano, but I just can't get the notes to stick in my head. My current tactic is to play from the score and gradually try to look away more and more. Problem is I tend to lose my place in the score and then get really muddles. I've also tried playing a few bars over and over with the score, then trying once with my eyes closed. That doesn't really work either--no matter how many times I repeat it, I can't seem to remember where my fingers go. When I do manage to memorize a piece (and I've only managed on melody instruments) it only sticks in my head for a few weeks at most. Any ideas?
Most of my performance is in groups: choirs, pit orchestras, etc., where sight reading is much more important than memorization. I suppose I conduct pretty much from memory, but I usually have the score nearby, just to be safe. (Though I have had a few embarrassing lapses, which my singers always found hilarious).
When it comes to memorization, I just don't know where to begin. I've tried a bit since I began learning piano, but I just can't get the notes to stick in my head. My current tactic is to play from the score and gradually try to look away more and more. Problem is I tend to lose my place in the score and then get really muddles. I've also tried playing a few bars over and over with the score, then trying once with my eyes closed. That doesn't really work either--no matter how many times I repeat it, I can't seem to remember where my fingers go. When I do manage to memorize a piece (and I've only managed on melody instruments) it only sticks in my head for a few weeks at most. Any ideas?
Andrew Roussak
New member
Hi Zlia,
( as long as Rojo is still not there
),I guess you may want to try a following trick. That is just easy and works by everyone -
First, forget about the scores and try to find out a tune or melody, that you are able surely SING from the beginning to the end. No matter which one, no matter how good you can sing it. As you did it, try to play the tune on your piano and sing simultaneously - NO SCORES! As you are Ok with this, try to find the proper chords for it which you play with your left hand. As you manage to play the tune from beginning to the end - done, you have memorised it. You may want to write down your chord progressions - it is OK, BUT DON'T WRITE DOWN THE NOTES!
You can then go ahead and make the stuff you are playing ( I mean the same tune ) more complex, changing the rhythm or chord voicings and memorising it step by step. Is is easier to memorise 10 chords as 300 notes. In this case, the hands would normally follow -
Best regards
Andrew
rojo
(Ret)
I`m here, I`m here! :grin:
I like Andrew`s suggestion, although chords can get a tad complicated to figure out by ear, depending on the arrangement, and it might not work that well for learning some classical music by heart, where the inversions of chords, etc. need to be exact.
Tbh, I`m a bit stumped as to why you`re having such trouble memorizing, zlya; usually it happens automatically, at least to a certain extent, from the repetition of the music involved in practicing. Of course, some pieces are easier to memorize than others.
Some suggestions for memorizing:
- Try a scale by heart; it`s short.
- Start with a very short passage of music, even less than a measure if necessary. Break it up into small, manageable parts. Then keep adding on, bit by bit.
- If you`re playing a piece using both hands, try learning each hand by heart separately, again, bit by bit.
- In order for it to stick, you have to maintain it. That is, play it often, or at least regularly.
I hear you about getting lost when you try to look back at the score. Completely normal. But I think the looking away more and more tactic is good. Forget the playing with eyes closed though, I think; your eyes need to see the patterns of the music on the keys.
I like Andrew`s suggestion, although chords can get a tad complicated to figure out by ear, depending on the arrangement, and it might not work that well for learning some classical music by heart, where the inversions of chords, etc. need to be exact.
Tbh, I`m a bit stumped as to why you`re having such trouble memorizing, zlya; usually it happens automatically, at least to a certain extent, from the repetition of the music involved in practicing. Of course, some pieces are easier to memorize than others.
Some suggestions for memorizing:
- Try a scale by heart; it`s short.
- Start with a very short passage of music, even less than a measure if necessary. Break it up into small, manageable parts. Then keep adding on, bit by bit.
- If you`re playing a piece using both hands, try learning each hand by heart separately, again, bit by bit.
- In order for it to stick, you have to maintain it. That is, play it often, or at least regularly.
I hear you about getting lost when you try to look back at the score. Completely normal. But I think the looking away more and more tactic is good. Forget the playing with eyes closed though, I think; your eyes need to see the patterns of the music on the keys.
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I often try the 'eyes closed' method, which for me seems to work out better than looking at my hands - when I do that, I get totally confused
... ! We had a sightless member join this forum a day or so ago - made me start to wonder how a sight impaired person learns new pieces, besides using braille music?
rojo
(Ret)
Interesting. I`ll have to try it then. Does it work for you even when there are big leaps and such?I often try the 'eyes closed' method, which for me seems to work out better than looking at my hands - when I do that, I get totally confused
I mention the looking at the keys suggestion because it`s another visual cue system (besides visualizing the notes on the score) that may be of use. The notes one plays make patterns on the keyboard which may be helpful to memorization for some people, (probably lots.)
Really? What kind of system does a visually impaired person use to read/make posts?
Well, a little peek now and then doesn't hurt on such things as leaps and huge spans :grin:
I didn't mean to discredit the suggestion by any means - I can certainly see lots of validity in using visual cues. Sometimes I will focus on the pipework of the organ visualizing each pipe as it emits sound and pitch. [/quote]
There is something called "talking software" that the blind can use with a PC. For 'typing' there is voice recognition software ... I know my version of MS Word has it - but I can type faster than I can say the words
Andrew Roussak
New member
Hi Zlia,
no - not actually. I play both jazz and classic, but what I really mean here - I am just more used to remember the chord progressions as the melodic lines. It works when you play Chopin or Bach as well, although maybe not that definite as when you play jazz. Well, actually, I have no idea of what you do play. But if you once tried , say, the MOONLIGHT SONATA ( Adagio part, Beeethoven ) or Prelude C-Dur from WTK ( known as AVE MARIA , Bach ) - then you can get my point. They are rather simple pieces completely based on the arpeggiated harmonies. Well, then you must remember the voicings, inversions and so on, but once you have the harmonie scheme in your head, you know at least, where you should likely go in the next bar. So if you can manage it this way - the gooooood half of your job is aready done...
Hope it will help you -
keep on rockin' ( swingin', conductin', memorisin'........... )
Andrew
no - not actually. I play both jazz and classic, but what I really mean here - I am just more used to remember the chord progressions as the melodic lines. It works when you play Chopin or Bach as well, although maybe not that definite as when you play jazz. Well, actually, I have no idea of what you do play. But if you once tried , say, the MOONLIGHT SONATA ( Adagio part, Beeethoven ) or Prelude C-Dur from WTK ( known as AVE MARIA , Bach ) - then you can get my point. They are rather simple pieces completely based on the arpeggiated harmonies. Well, then you must remember the voicings, inversions and so on, but once you have the harmonie scheme in your head, you know at least, where you should likely go in the next bar. So if you can manage it this way - the gooooood half of your job is aready done...
Hope it will help you -
keep on rockin' ( swingin', conductin', memorisin'...........
)Andrew
kirlianamber
New member
Well...I always found it easier to memorise the piece. Firstly because so far I've only had a few pieces to play in public; all those were exam pieces or ensembles on electric organ, and with those I could fudge a little and not be noticed. And classical music seems easier on the brain sometimes. Secondly I'm a lazy bum who hates turning pages. So I memorise. Thirdly my brain has the weird property of taking an entire song and running it in bits and pieces in my head once I've heard it; therefore memorising comes naturally to me--probably to do with my reading habits: I can sometimes sort of "visualise" a page of a book (or score) if I concentrate real hard.
Looking away or looking at fingers and keys: I never thought of it, but yeah, after a while you do tend to remember where the next finger is supposed to go even faster than what note comes next, ne? I usually look at my hands when I'm playing though--else it's easy to make a mistake. Also it's been a while since I've played anything I was so familiar with I needn't look at the keys at all.
On the other hand, memorising led to a disaster in my last piano exam: Being my first time sitting for an ABRSM exam, and the examiner holding a DPhil, I totally lost it under pressure and was so rattled that I left out an entire section in my piece. (STILL managed to pass though: big miracle considering)
So caveat: Have a very good knowledge of your piece: And join that with a strong stomach (esp. in public performance). :grin:
And classical music seems easier on the brain sometimes. Secondly I'm a lazy bum who hates turning pages. So I memorise. Thirdly my brain has the weird property of taking an entire song and running it in bits and pieces in my head once I've heard it; therefore memorising comes naturally to me--probably to do with my reading habits: I can sometimes sort of "visualise" a page of a book (or score) if I concentrate real hard.Looking away or looking at fingers and keys: I never thought of it, but yeah, after a while you do tend to remember where the next finger is supposed to go even faster than what note comes next, ne? I usually look at my hands when I'm playing though--else it's easy to make a mistake. Also it's been a while since I've played anything I was so familiar with I needn't look at the keys at all.
On the other hand, memorising led to a disaster in my last piano exam: Being my first time sitting for an ABRSM exam, and the examiner holding a DPhil, I totally lost it under pressure and was so rattled that I left out an entire section in my piece. (STILL managed to pass though: big miracle considering)
So caveat: Have a very good knowledge of your piece: And join that with a strong stomach (esp. in public performance). :grin:
zlya
New member
Ok, Andrew, I tried your tactic last night. It was fun, but I just ended up recomposing the pieces. Couldn't remember the actual chords used, and I couldn't even remember the chords I made up, so I ended up playing it through with different harmonization each time. Fun, but probably not what you meant. Should I try writing down the chords from the score and playing from that? I'll probably get the inversions wrong. I could just go all the way and use figured bass, though I've never been very good at that. Still, could be fun.