"Old Wave" classical music

[John Watt]

Yes, this is a new genre of music, "Old Wave" classical. I'm sure everyone has heard of "New Wave" and "New Age". The technological and instrumental saturation of our times actually has created a new genre of music, for senior musicians. I'm not typing Master musicians, a category of professionalism, I'm typing "Old" as in being old is part of the equation.

I've only got sixteen minutes left on this computer before this business closes, so even if I wanted to I couldn't keep typing about this new category of musical expression. I'm hoping others will be doing some of what I've got together already, and understand, adding comments to make this thread express it wider, rather than having me as a downward scroll.

What's the basic tenet of "Old Age" music. First, it means you can actually play an instrument. You can't just sample or hire others. You have to be a musician. Reading and writing can be optional, it is for me. There has to be professional instruments and equipment involved, what musicians can amass over the years, ranging from 9-volt battery driven units, through analog, getting into the digital.

You have to be a stage performer already. You can't be nervous or concentrating on yourself, because "Old Age" musicians are used to that. I'm not typing bandleader or mike personality, just the ability to get up in front of listeners and carry the event yourself, with other musicians or yourself.

Being able to enter a venue when all you have to do is carry your instrument or lift the lid on the piano, and carry the event yourself or with others, getting paid, are other "Old Age" parameters. Doing it off the top of your head is the most important one. As an experienced stage player, having the music in your hear't and he'ad, sorry for the Scottish phonetic resonance, is what makes you in demand. Being called a wild pianist, for example, is better than others asking if you know this song because they want to sing along.

The gig defines "Old Age", because it is a gig. This doesn't mean youngsters can't get into it, to enjoy the sheer beauty and drama of your output, it's just the opposite of what rock bands do with all the equipment and volume. For an old age musician, who was out there before big rigs hit, it's something that's so generic and venue pre-equipped you're using it, whether you crank it up or not.

Too bad I've only got five minutes left. I'm going to click submit, but I can't even stick around to see if anyone types next. And as a new age musician has to say, as his adoring throng of listeners surrounds him as he gets ready to leave, please, don't worry, I've been booked again. And where is the buffet?

 

[JHC]

As usual John I have not the faintest idea what you are after, do you want to solicit posts from :

musicians that have performed on stage solo or with others in a professional aka (paid) sense, on acoustic instruments (Old Wave) and/or digital that you also class (Old Wave)??? Am I on the right track?? I have the qualifications but don’t know what to do with them. aha aha do you want anecdotes?

　

　

　
Btw I see “White Knight” likes your thread but what he actually likes is not clear
<oo>

I almost forgot I more than qualify for the old bit

 

[teddy]

I believe I understand what you mean John

teddy

 

[JHC]

I believe I understand what you mean John

teddy

Well don't keep it to yourself teddy explain! am I way off the mark?

 

[White Knight]

Colin, What I like about this post--and about JW in general--is the knowledge and passion he always brings to this subject. And yes, being 60 years old, I also qualify for his definition, though--unlike the both of you--I am not a musician.

 

[JHC]

I must be as thick as two short planks because I can't figure out what he is after perhaps you can enlighten me? Please
Just off subject for one moment [Do US Citizens retire at 60?]

 

[White Knight]

Colin, It all depends on what field the employee is in, and whether it's in civil service {which is usually a 20 or 25 year and out} or in the private sector. So it greatly varies.
Getting back to John Watt, I'm sure that if you were to ask him directly he'd be glad to answer you. I think what he is getting at is that the "old school" musicians have more skills, passion and abilities than do the current so called "New Age" lot. Also, that the older group don't have to rely as much on special effects and various gadgets to produce good music as does this younger generation of musicians. At least that's some of what I gleaned from what JW was posting about, but--as always--I could be dead wrong; not the first time, and it certainly won't be the last, not by a long shot!

 

[JHC]

Thanks Steve, I did post asking John if I had interpreted correctly so will wait for his reply. Regarding retirement [some people have it made eh]

 

[Corno Dolce]

The average age for pension in Russia is 55 for the ladies and 60 for the men.

Back on topic: "Old Wave Music" - What in the world will they think of next?.............

 

[JHC]

It's 65 here men and women, unless you happen to be a politician then it is after serving 3 terms = 9 years total, then you and your other half qualify for 90% of all air travel free this and free that + an extremely generous pension which is equal to 80 - 90% of you average yearly salary + the same pension that the rest of us get at 65. now who determines the salary have a guess???
Back on topic "waiting for JW to post"

 

[Corno Dolce]

"Waiting for JW to post", Hmmm - Did you know that JW also means Johnnie Walker? - Maybe our brother from Canada is enjoying some of that drink now........Or has been for the past 72 hours........

 

[White Knight]

The average age for pension in Russia is 55 for the ladies and 60 for the men.

Back on topic: "Old Wave Music" - What in the world will they think of next?.............

CD, Those aren't bad averages at all!

 

[John Watt]

Oh boy! I'm back as soon as possible, and wasn't expecting this much interest. And I'm not trying to "solicit posts", if that brings a whiff of fishing or trolling. I'm currently arranging a video performance to demonstrate an "old age" performance.

When jazz musicians were big bands, you have to acknowledge the saying that redefined an end of a musical era, when it became "if it ain't got that swing, it don't mean a thing". So an old age musician would not only reference old big band, but have the swing aspect too. But what was that swing, for most of the audience. Riding that cymbal, from a blues perspective, a galloping beat. Now, for modern media listeners, if it doesn't have that swing, it's not authentic. For many north americans, Buddy Riches continuous and always soloing appearances represented the drumming comprehension of that, not a bad source.

But that's still the previous millennium. Funk came along, raggaefication is still proliferating, Bob Marley, the roots, still playing, that style alive on radio and mass entertainment. And as far as modern social intercourse goes, without trying to engender past racist attitudes, I haven't heard anyone talking about playing like a black person in this new millennium. Dat's 'bout de club... doin'... yeah doin' it, and that's just phonetics, coming offa rap, getting into hip-hop featuring rap, mostly computer sampled.

So an old age musician wouldn't be down on that, using a drum machine, maybe, better than a metronome, building your own beat as a percussion solo to start, having pre-programmed rhythms, simple enough to use for a timing thrust, or wrapped around a defined song arrangement. But the ideal old age musician wouldn't need all that, just using it if you want, what's just out all around anyway.

But the main requirement for an old age musician would be the ability to leave all that, just wanting to get it on with your instrument, to share your frustration at what the news of the world, what global reality we all are more than ever beginning to realize for all mankind, and the creatures forced to live nocturnal habits, afraid of being in the sight of humans.

What's my old age perspective here, that those from not here might be lacking? Professor Marshall McCluhan, who first said and published the concept of "global village", and "the media is the message", was a professor in Toronto, where I lived sometimes. His ideas are now more globally understood because we are doing his predictions, using computers this way before the general public had them.

And what's my blues roots, being North American, including that tribal heartbeat, equal to imported slave input? Cancer, the new black and blues. The Niagara Peninsula has the highest per capita cancer rate in Ontario. My mother, her two sisters, her brother, my friend whose daughter went in to see her doctor because she wasn't feeling good, and two months later dying from fast acting cancer. That's not as bad as the blues from Bopal, Chernobyl, and now Japan.

Corno Dolce might be able to deliver a Master Class when it comes to classical strings and everything instrumental, but instead of the past tradition of gut strings being where it's at, it's now whales and dolphins beaching themselves, audiences appreciating the enviromental messages more and more, especially if they have their pets with them, a more public exhibition than ever before, even to the wearing of dogs as accessories. How can that be reflected onstage, without making marine mammal sounds as part of the act? I'm thinking of hanging an eagle feather on my headstock, for small stages.

You might think any further advancement of music would require more musicianship, even if it's just a foreign influence because you could afford the trip. But that's never going to be new again, most listeners able to listen online any time anywhere around the world, usually programming or inputting themselves. So an old age musician who can rely on his own energies to enrapt an audience, is getting rarer and rarer. And considering the genre categories that entrap the public into specific venues with specific imagery, almost all artificially created, even a lone player who is even semi-feeling, is going to find it easy to interest his audience.

And what audiences are there out there more than ever, seniors, living longer, having more disposable income, or to be considered a captive audience, all in chairs, real or electric, waiting for someone to come in. Sure, as they say to this old age player, it's nice to see someone sing and plays songs and spread the good times around, but a player with passion, for people starving for passion, needing to relive that passion, they're waiting. This is where keyboardists have an advantage over other players, simply walking into a venue and sitting down. If you walk, any pay is all in your pocket.

Back to upgrading musicianship to be part of this new movement, old age music. What? Is that what all this tech is about, real musicianship? Especially after going through the "sex and drugs and rock and roll" of the previous generations? Imagine, instead of using a left hand reminiscent of, say Corno Dolce on a good night, you simply beat out an octave that represents a chord, like a driving rock, blues, mild new wave or new age beat, but riff out with your right hand like a jazz sax, trumpet, even a Jimi Hendrix multiple note moving thing, concentrating on just riffing out, working off what tune you know, easier than a fully developed classical player. Not that I'm encouraging lesser musicianship, but an old age player can get into it sooner than having to develop as a fully blown classical virtuoso. And that driving beat is easy to get off on, jamming with your polar hand.

And if it's an electric keyboard, you don't have to only sound like a piano all the time, catching that trumpet and violin sound, whatever, actually using technology to expand your sound and performance. So even if you're not a wild and continuous right hand jammer, just changing setting will make you sound new all over again. Yes, leaning on technology, but as an old age player you are simply relying onl yourself, if solo, not other musicians, especially if it has to be such a presentation that the venue and audience determine your timing more than you. And that's the nice part about being an old age musician, it is the information age, people want to meet who they're listening to, and as a self-contained entity you are able to talk and mingle with your in the same room audience, not separated by the stage and security.

If this looks like I'm liking downsizing, hey, that's just what's going on all around me. Why let the music suffer for it? Play what you want to play. If they don't ask you back, who cares? You're going to be playing what you want to play anyway, as an old age musician, not having to think retired or semi-retired, but hopefully, comfortable enough to play without having to pander to venues or audiences.

And what's another aspect of modern life, considering how much is not just graphics because everyone's used to animated? The font. You should look good, being the artist. You should have an easel with your introduction at the door. Something for people to take, so they can phone or email for more. Going from foyer or parlour performances to personal settings would be a lifestyle choice for some, but for the old age musician it would represent a chance to be more personal, and catch some extra pay through lessons, even one lesson, another player wanting to learn some specific technique, or for rock musicians, a part they can't figure out, or an effect that won't give them that sound.

A phase rock bands went through, widely attributed to the first "Chicago" album, was using one song to get into a percussion thing. That lasted a long time, most good rock bands still doing that, if not sounding tribal. An old age player will encourage the audience to play along, maybe providing Dollar Store drums for everyone, or using a small tambourine, other things, for interested audience members. Even those in wheelchairs can tap along. That's if you like audience participation. I don't see crowd surfing as an old age stage activity, unless I was jumping off and landing on a pile of Grace Kelly posters.

And as far as looking for work in old age homes, I'm not going to get into the medication aspect of the environment, or the long histories of drug abuse most of the public associate, maybe now used to associate, with musicians, especially rock and jazz, classical seen as genteel spirits imbibing. That makes me a more strident old age player. My lobby sign, inspired by the first album liner notes written by Jimi Hendrix, will show: WARNING! Please be forewarned: Pace-makers must be signed it at the desk. Yeah, if I'm getting into it, if the spirit of music is ever going to keep flowing through me, I don't want no electrical interference.

"Seen Your Citizens", a travelling old age band, maybe the first to gather as a group and tour, former road musicians who have already been there, probably forgetting most of it themselves, are now returning to favorite cities to play in daylight venues, for those who remember them and missed them the most.

And I type this in all sincerity, not to disaparage the wonderful music we all know from the past, but leaving the printed notes behind, and just trying to give it a blast.

Yes, I do have more to say, inspiring myself. And I'm getting paid, ooh, what else? First time on piano, and I was asked.
I am an old age musician. Please wait for "Sent A Mental Signs" for your next "Fount of Font" fun fest, featuring the "Earl of Url".

Riff me off, you more grandiose and elegant potential old age musicians. Tickle some real ivory for me. And I'm like Nicolo Paganini. If I have to drag an old home entertainment organ sitting curbside for pre-arranged disposal, back up the driveway to plug it in and start terrorizing a neighbourhood, I will.

 

[Corno Dolce]

Br. JW,

Hear, hear - What a most fascinating homily you share - It'll take me awhile to fully understand the concepts you bring to the fore - You spakest about "tribal heartbeat" - Ok, do share what that means, beyond the usual assumptions of what is and what isn't "North American Tribal" and what it means for your musicianship. You have shared much in your latest post - Now, I'm sure you can take all those concepts and refine them so that we "grandiose and elegant potential old age musicians" will have a clue. Seriously, you have so much energy and philosophical insight that tolerates a systematizing. It'll be fascinating what the end product will be - I, for one, wish to know. Ok?

On another thread I came out of the closet: I'm just a hick(read RED-NECK) from fly-over country, who barely caught the train for parts unknown, and was dragged behind THAT train half-way around the world before it came to a complete and FINAL stop.

 

[JHC]

Crikey John Watts you are very extravagant with words I will have to copy and paste as I suffer from ADS = attention deficit syndrome, it may take me a day or two. btw you are not related to Martin are you?

 

[John Watt]

This is most enticing. Corno Dolce represents the best of online musical commentary for me, almost feeling confrontational at first, only because of my academic weakness. When someone could use so few words for a reply that not only circumscribed everything I typed, but pushed me with a small elaboration, how can I repay that? Maybe I finally broke through.

Here in North America, and especially coming back from England, it's always about slavery and cotton fields and the ensuing blues. Wanting to approach music within that cultural confine as redefined by Hollywood and New York, who preferred to own their own copywrit version, totally ignores the local reality, native Americans. Who do you think first assimilated themselves, if even through poverty, slaves upon slaves. One-third of the population in the American west was of African descent, even if movies didn't even begin to represent that. You can't blame that on just black and white t.v. Much of the blues reflects that, especially the "heartbeat" drums. You don't have to think, say, as the descendent of Rus Cossacks, that your heartbeat is the same. Everyone is different. But North American natives used percussion as trance and dance, letting this unite their heartbeats in a tribal rhythm. One outsider amidst a tribe of natives would get into that, just like birds of a feather flocking together, or whales that travel as family for generations.

I woke up, still planning my "old wave" performance and the recording of it, but I was still thinking "old age", what I began typing above even after titling it "old wave". Maybe I just had my first "middle-aged moment". That might work onstage, being not just forgetful, but rediscovering my more sexy youth through addled female approaches. I know women who say, after a man has been fondling their breasts, "That's okay, he's like that". That also worked for others in rock bands when I was in my twenties, usually a drummer.

Handing out pamphlets and brochures wouldn't be part of an old wave performance, unless the performer was selling them or collecting a profit. No freebies, saving the trees. A showcard on an easel, perhaps an extension of the performer's artistry, would be best.

What makes this enticing for experienced and professional musicians is the level of self-indulgence this represents. People are expecting you to show up with no paper music, not hauling in big rigs, mostly using what's there, especially for keyboardists. This is interesting, very interesting, another form of lesson, for listeners. They can hear what it sounds like and see what it takes to get the sounds and music out of an instrument that is in their realm, something they can try themselves. Despite all my less than blatant self-commentary here, I had more musicians ask me to play their guitar to see what it sounded like, than asked to play mine. But that's okay, being left-handed has this as a benefit, if I want.

Perhaps more than any actual performance aspect, being able to introduce yourself to your audience, what are the available venues, might be the best part. You get to say your name, saying others for thanks if you want. That might not sound like much, but it's not, uh, "Hey Magle! yeah Rock on!", and the listeners laugh, thinking "this is Harmony Central". Yeah! See you later Noo Yawk! That's not dignified enough. Now if Fred Astaire or the dancing daughter of a listener or venue employee wants to dance along, you can easily add a human element lacking on big rock stages and the content requirements, to much legals, of recording venues.

Sometimes I felt more like talking, before I felt like playing, standing up there looking the audience in the eye. It's nice when you can relax yourself, getting off without restraint, making that big first impression in a relaxed way. You should want to relax your audience, so you can hit them harder later. Why start yelling out loud just to say hello, when a little lei goes a long way?

I feel extravagant with words. This excites me, a new career opportunity, on piano. Other people made me an old wave musician. And even up north, amongst the Inuit, in a world where the light for our eyes is blinding, seeing more, seeing more colours, what is an old wave for them, in the air? They told me a caribou, walking by on migration, might be startled by a bear or hunter, emote, and be gone. The next year, caribou passing by would notice his fear in the air, and make haste. They told me sounds could be frozen, and voices from the past could be heard. When the ice you are standing on groans so loudly in agreement, it's easy to believe. And when the ice makes sounds of cracking coming at you, you better run, before a rogue American ice-breaker comes your way.

That's something you might be able to extrapolate on, Mr. Corno Dolce, what technology is feasible as old wave, and what isn't. I see being able to sing a song, preferable your own, especially singing along, as a part of it. You know how the public made it difficult for jazz and classical players who grunted and groaned, unable to control it, and having a tough time selling it. Does this mean they couldn't actually sing out loud. Instead of grunting and groaning, they should have. That's an old wave performance attitude. Nice!

An old wave player would be able to weave the actual musical requests of the audience, easier to do, nice for the player, referencing what he has of it, feeling it in his output, but not having to start at the first note and play it like the original all the way through. I might be talking about a lesser musicianship than being a constant virtuoso, but that's what jamming it out is all about, leaving the things of man behind, and letting the music in you come out.

And I'm not as professional as I thought. I went into Welland's senior centre to look around, after I turned sixty, thinking even sixty-five for retirement. No, it's 50. I missed out on ten years of free pool and pool tables, seeing even old pool hall friends from when I was an employee.

They're calling the growing mountain of garbage behind the new Walmart, where people say you can dump for free, "Mount St. Welland". Yeah, not exactly like "Slum-dog Millionaire", or the residential dumps in other countries, but Welland's getting there. Garbage dumps should be an old wave theme, not a resource.

 

[JHC]

I am still on Volume one????

Jeez what are we onto now Slavery,
Rus Cossacks is that anything to do with the Don Cossack?? Fondling female breasts, rubbish dumps, Native or Indigenous people and what it boils down to as far as I see is improvisation which is what Jazz is all about and most Classical musicians can also improvise when called upon and a feeling for music and life and all that Jazz, over to you comrade CD

 

[White Knight]

@ Colin and CD, I gotta admit I'm a little lost myself just about now; JW is waaaay above my head! :banghead:

 

[Corno Dolce]

Br. Steve,

My jaw dropped to the floor upon reading John Watt's latest homily. He has gone beyond what I can muster and, frankly, I'm glad he does. He does this hick(me) too great of an honor with his very kind remark about my commentary. It is praise that is way beyond my paygrade.


Br. Colin,


My answer to the Cossack Song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUgBZNZoiNc

 

[John Watt]

No! No, Corno Dolce. That was not praise beyond your paygrade, a nice line in itself. Waking up, in all my fullness, not zonked a little, and thinking of you, may be my first morning thoughts about another musician or man. And what was I thinking? For all my enthusiasm about getting back to see any reponse, and continue this old wave wash, I forgot to comment on you repeating "grandiose", thinking your use could be construed as taking it as, not an insult, but a you and not us kind of thing.

That's part of it, for sure. But I'm using grandiose to describe my general impression of the topics and instruments here, instead of saying "hippy" or "country". My using grandiose was a compliment in that respect, not being a roots musician, coming to old wave as a virtuoso used to playing historic instruments in historic architecture. My repetitious line about old wave being a lesser form of genre than jazz or classical represents that attitude too.

And let me get to the heart of the organist in you. Consider an organist playing a cathedral organ as a gig. Say he goes to where a piano and organ is, and plays his cathedral style. Let's imagine everyone is applauding, saying he sounded like a Biggser Bach. But then some less than gradiose looking player sits down, and turns on the rhythm section, getting a samba beat happening, maybe upping the speed, and starts rocking out. The audience might start tapping to the beat, both hands are working the keys, and the "Funny Feet" option makes the bass notes beat with the percussion programming. That's enough extra musical impetus to prod the player to play longer, and something to leave on if you have to stop and lean back, and wonder how to start again. That's better than playing one song, wanting to play another you feel like, when an entertainer would have to try the request.

And if it was Corno Dolce, with Irma la Douce leaning alongside, I'd be expecting him to be punishing the ivories on a piano where it doesn't matter if he breaks any strings or pedals, and the sight of Irma on her knees beside him, reaching up alonside his legs to help push the bass pedals, yeah, that would be my strongest memory of the night. I'd be asking "where's Irma" if I saw him later, saying there's some nice bran muffins, yeah, raisins, not chocolate. If you're into the old wave wationale, you'll like that better than alcohol making you shaking, and stirred-crazy, unless you sold your meds to someone else.

If I was a professional organist, I'd be one of the first to want to be an old wave wevivalist. Imagine going from having to haul your own organ, to just turning some else's on, just having to sit on it to let it all go, feet tapping like Sammy Davis.

And the nicest part of being an old wave washout, is knowing there's no pressure to emulate the mastery of "The Earl of Url Frederik Magle". See! This old wave rewigion is inspiring me to finally arrive at the proper title for Mr. Frederik Magle. He's not a dry and soft-focus player, his video represents not just a modern style, but getting more sublime, more nuanced and layered, with the music bringing it all together. "The Earl of Url, Frederik Magle". You can tell I live close to Fonthill.

Jazz is still jazz, classical is still classical, old wave is all less than that. I know. More public than republic, some surf and smurf. I gotta be like that. Half of everything around me is covered in Disney graphics. I feel like I've been to the Princess Bride's wedding, and I haven't even seen the movie.