Music and Language

[JHC]

I’m not sure where this will lead or even if it makes sense to you, but at some time you hear people say “That is typical English music” “ that is French music” or whatever country they are referring to, I say it myself so, what is it that relates a particular piece of music to a country or makes the association for you? a couple of my own examples:
Chausson, Quatuor a cordes Op35 & Concert Op21 for Piano,Violin and St Qt. to me this could not be other than French.
Sibelius, Symphonies just got to be Scandinavian.
Not all of a composers work is so easily classified, (to me)


Could it be the tonal, rhythmic peculiarities of the mother tongue influencing the composer e.g., English a sibilant language, French a smooth flowing language Japanese Chinese sing songy [no offence intended] do we all think the same about a particular piece of music?

 

[Dorsetmike]

That theory could get interesting when you consider the English language is spoken in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand; are you suggesting the music from those countries would all sound similar to English music? Also how about Spanish and Portuguese influencing Mexican and South American music, and other European languages in former colonial territories?

Does Percy Grainger's music have an Aussie accent?

Could Samuel Barber's work pass for English?

But not Aaron Copland, Ferde Grofé, or Gershwin methinks.

I think that probably many compositions since WW2 have gradually lost national flavours.

 

[dll927]

It has been said that music is the universal language. Quite often I can recognize if a piece is by Mozart or Haydn -- there is just something characteristic about those two. I can't claim to recognize everybody by "style", buy at least with M & H, I hit it right more often than not.

It seems that national trends come in, too, as I've read many times about "typical" Russian, French, Scandanavian, German, etc. music. Could it be in their blood?

 

[JHC]

I think every one would recognise work by R Vaughn Williams, Paganini,Handel.
due to their individual sound and style of composition so why not nationality

 

[Contratrombone64]

I think music is the personality of the respective composer, which a general broad brush stroke of "homeland" and "musical era/fashion".

my two cents worth

 

[Corno Dolce]

Three cheers for J.H.C.'s very thought provoking question.

Imvoho, it is very much the composer's own *tonal language* which carries the ethnic flavourings, his/her experiences, loves, educational background and all the other *baggage*(I beg your indulgence:smirk which he/she carries throughout life.

 

[wljmrbill]

I know I always associate the music with the composer with the area he lives and period he was raised within..... and this seems to carry certain characteristics of the period in most cases........As in most cases we are influenced by our surroundings and this carriees over into music. It is interesting how this all interacts.

 

[OLDUDE]

Hi Colin,
I have just stumbled onto this thread, and I dont feel qualified to comment on the Classical scene, (except to wonder whether Greig owes more to his Scottish roots or to the later Scandanavian influence).
When it comes to my main interest (Jazz), there are, in the USA, (said to be the home of Jazz), well defined differences in the nature of such music, which may well have arisen from ethnic backgrounds of the various imigrants involved in its history.
African, Latin-American, and European influences have had obvious effects upon the development of jazz in its multitude of modern forms.
It seems unlikely that all types of music are not similarly influenced by their national and ethnic source.
However it may happen that with the huge improvement in world wide communications that such diversity will disappear. I hope not!

Cheers John

 

[JHC]

I understand that the regional accents in England are getting weaker which is, IMO due to the ease of trave and the radio/TV influence which you pointed out, Regarding Greig I would think his Scot ancestry had no influence.
　
I realise that not all composers can be pidgin holed in this way, what I am trying to say “and probably not very clearly’ is when you listen to a work by certain composers do you immediately think that sounds so very ‘French’ German’ Russian etc now if you do think this then what brings you to this conclusion?
In my OP I said that Chausson, Quatuor a cordes Op35 & Concert Op21 for Piano,Violin and St Qt sounded typically French to me now I wonder if this particular example sounds French to others?

 

[Contratrombone64]

J.H.C. comment appelleriez-vous généralemont musique de la Nouvelle-Zélande?

 

[JHC]

CT I really can’t say, but John Psathas is one of the present day composers that I like, try this link
http://www.google.co.nz/#q=john+psathas+youtube&hl=en&rlz=1W1DANZ_en-GB&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=NiWwS6CtFZaekQWVx5GVDQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQqwQwAA&fp=13c24b653189762f

Sleeper is a good one to start with. I can not say if he sounds NZish
let me know what you think of [Sleeper] hope I got the meaning of your Frenchie twang PS on the RH side of the window [utube] is a scroll of some of our composers you will know Gillian Whitehead of course!

 

[Contratrombone64]

Yeah, it's wonderful, I also listened to this, which I liked very much, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNoF_KcYD1E

 

[JHC]

Try this joker some of his stuff is way out but some is OKhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXXxNWrC-Fo I won't post any more don't want to over do it

 

[Contratrombone64]

I liked it, really I did!

 

[Ouled Nails]

It does have a "national" sound in the sense that there occurred a "national" period of development in classical music which soon became institutionalized in these countries' respective conservatoires. Perhaps Chopin did it for his own patriotic reasons at an earlier point in time but, clearly, the French and the Russians were both aspiring to create "national" schools, hence "national" sounds, around the latter part of the 19th century, along with Dvorak, Grieg, and a few other examples. (Interestingly, I would not characterize Liszt as a "national" composer).

They were soon followed by a younger generation of Hungarians, Czechs, Englishmen, Spaniards, etc. When young students from the USA, Brazil, Mexico travelled to study in France or simply consulted briefly with a composer such as Dvorak while he was in the USA, they were encouraged, nay, urged to find that national spirit, and not to simply emulate some international (i.e., German-Austrian) aesthetic model.

This search for a national spirit in one's composition maily occurred until, say, the 1940's but for late comers, such as French-Canadian composers, it continued much later.

Very good topic!

 

[Contratrombone64]

Yes, I think the national sound is also VERY obvious from the Russians, regardless of whether they were from before the 1900s or after.

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi ON,

Presciently exquisite comments yours are. Liszt is *quite special*, however, the strains of *Czardás* are always percolating in his veins. I have this notion that his *Weimar Period* did much to give his music a hyper-romantic muscularity. When listening to his magnum opus organ piece entitled Fantasy and Fugue on *Ad Nos, Ad Salutarem Undam* its as if he sums up much of his *compositional weltanschaaung*, so to speak...

Hi David,

Yes, one can invariably pick out a Russian through their music - The whole panoply of ethnic groups and political upheaval that have pulsed through the course of Russian History makes for an overwhelmingly rich smorgasbord from which to pick and choose.

Cheers,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

 

[mathetes1963]

Interesting thread....I was listening to some big orchestral score on the local classical station the other day and thought, "Hmmm...I bet this is English..." It turned out to be the Symphony No. 1 by William Walton.

 

[Ouled Nails]

Interesting thread....I was listening to some big orchestral score on the local classical station the other day and thought, "Hmmm...I bet this is English..." It turned out to be the Symphony No. 1 by William Walton.

Isn't it the way it goes? Who cannot hear "Frenchy" in Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe? "Ruskie" in Rimsky-Korsakov's Antar? "Yankee" in Gershwin's songs (with the divine Barbara Hendricks)? Moravian in Janacek's diary of one who disappeared. Buenos Aires with Piazzola's tango?

Who, I tell yu?