Attention Mahlerites:Rate His Symphonies

[zoned]

What do you think are his finest symphonies? I beleive his 6th"Tragic" may well be his most concise and finest. Does any one have any thoughts about the hammerblows in the final movement? I think there should be three incorporated in the amazing final movement. Barbirolli conducted the finest Mahler 6th in my opinion. I think Mahler's 9th is his second greatest achievement followed by the 3rd, Can anyone recommend any present day recordings as being of reaching great heights of achievment?I look forward to any and all responses. Thank you, Robert Z. Oh,and who do you think is the best Mahler conductor?

 

[Frederik Magle]

I rate all Mahler's symphonies very highly, but the 8th has always had a special place with me. I wrote a post about my fascination of it here.

To me it's hard to name one favorite Mahler conductor, because in my view one conductor may record the best version of, say, the 8th, while others may have better versions of some of the other symphonies. Even though there are only 9 1/4 symphonies by Mahler they represent such a huge universe with so much room for interpretation. Anyhow, I'd have to think more about which conductors I prefer for each symphony.

 

[Corno Dolce]

Hi Sir Frederik,

Golly gee - you and I both have a special place in our hearts for Mahler's Eigth. I really dig the beautiful "Ewige Wonnebrand, Glühendes Liebeband" as sung by the Pater Ecstaticus. It really sets the stage for what transpires in the rest of the symphony. Of course, the extended coda is just out of this world. My body goes almost into a state of spasmodic shock every time I hear it - Eargasm if you want.

I remember hearing it for the first time many, many, many years ago as performed by the Berlin Philharmonic. Utterly transfixed only begins to describe my state of being upon hearing it.

Humbly and Respectfully yours,

Corno Dolce :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

 

[Contratrombone64]

Mahler? Not a fan, but that's totally personal and no reflection on any other person's views. I do agree with Fred here, however, on No8 (the only one I enjoy listening too) because of the wonderful use of the organ in the first section.

 

[some guy]

I'm with Frederik on this, all Mahler's symphonies are fine. I used to not like nos. 4 and 8 much, but I recently got the Gielen recordings of those, and can now listen to both with much pleasure.

If you think the 6th is the best, you probably don't need a recommendation for a "best" recording of that. I think that's Bernstein's, though. Ditto for no. 7, which can really seem feeble in a less than inspired performance. I like Haitink for nos. 2 and 3. Kubelik for no. 5 (the first Mahler I ever liked), and Walter and Gielen for no. 9. I haven't kept up with all the various permutations of the tenth. I think the first one I heard was Ormandy with Cooke's first performing version. The tenth's a real stunner, for sure. Some of Mahler's best music there; I'm glad people have made the effort to give us performing versions of that. (Just think how impoverished we'd be if Salieri hadn't finished up Mozart's Requiem for us, eh? And as far as I know, Mahler's tenth was much closer to being finished than the Requiem. I may not know very far, though!!)

Anyway, the only recording of the tenth I have is the BBC Music Magazine freebie with Mark Wigglesworth and the BBC National Orchestra of Wales in, I think, Cooke's second version. I don't remember if it's any good, so I'm going to put it on right now, because I can.

 

[Kromme]

When Mariss Jansons was asked which one was his favourite of Mahler symphonies he responded:"Every single one of them."In one aspect i agree.Each one of Mahler symphonies are very important statements in music.Of course however there are some of them which i enjoy listening to more than others.In that sense 5th,6th,8th and 9th can be named as my favourite Mahler symphonies.It depends very much on my mood.If i am sad and depressed 5th is my favourite,if i am depressed but faced and accepted the facts 9th is the way to go.If i am sad and angry 6th would do the work and for joy i go to 8th.

To my ears noone does Mahler as emotional and inspired as Klaus Tennstedt does.His approach is irredeemably dark and i feel that suits very well with Mahler.He has a lots of outstanding moments in any symphony he conducts.Whenever i listen to his second Veni Crator Spiritus in the 8th symphony i cry out of joy.However he was an uneven conductor.His 5th with London Philharmonic for example is wonderful at first two movements than drags to being good to average at 3rd and 4th movements. Unfortunately when he did not feel,he conducted especially bad.In 5th movement this is evident.It is lifeless and dull.I find Leonard Bernstein's Mahler unnatural and exaggarated.I think it is more about Bernstein than Mahler.Barbirolli is a very fine Mahler conductor but i dislike his 6th.Very slow tempos let the tension drop at many moments.However his 2nd,4th,5th and 9th are masterful.Rattle has a lot of insights but not all of them are good.To me he is a fine Mahlerian but not as good as people rates him to be.Haitink is always skillful,wise and purposeful in Mahler but he lacks the edge in emotional intensity.Chailly is perfect in setting the balance between structure and emotion.His 9th is unbelievable.Klemperer is said to be dry in Mahler but to my ears he is never less than emotional and intense.Solti is theatratic and operatic as always.Horenstein is very Furtwanglerian way of Mahler conductor(Interesting isn't it?).Spontaneous and emotional.Sinopoli is original and personal.Bertini is beautiful,beauty is the most prominent aspect of his approach.Not a fan at all of Boulez.I find him cold and dry.Jansons is straightforward(He is my favourite conductor alive but i do not admire his Mahler as much as i admire his other works.To me straightforward is not a praise word for Mahler conducting.)Abbado's Mahler is ever-improving from his Chicago days to Lucerne days.His Berlin cycle was never less than good.His Lucerne performances are even better.I did not hear any Mahler from Gielen but from what i've heard Abbado challenges Chailly for the title of greatest Mahler conductor alive.Probably Kubelik is the most consistent Mahler interpreter.His box set still stands the test of time.He draws out the Bohemian side of Mahler.He is revelatory.Some feels his Mahler is lightweight but i don't hear it myself .

6th should have,i think,2 hammerblows in the final movement and andante should be played BEFORE scherzo simply because the last draft by Mahler himself ordered so.

Recordings
1st:
Kubelik & Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Abbado & Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra

2nd:
Mehta & Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Klemperer & Philharmonia Orchestra
Abbado & Lucerne Festival Orchestra

3rd:
Chailly & Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
Tennstedt & London Philharmonic Orchestra
Haitink & Chicago Symphony Orchestra

4th:
Horenstein & London Philharmonic Orchestra
Barbirolli & Halle Orchestra
Kubelik & Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra

5th:
Barbirolli & Philharmonia Orchestra
Kubelik & Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Abbado & Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra

6th:
Tennstedt & London Philharmonic Orchestra
Jansons & London Symphony Orchestra
Kubelik & Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra

7th:
Bernstein & New York Philharmonic Orchestra
Rattle & City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra
Abbado & Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra

8th:
Tennstedt & London Philharmonic Orchestra
Solti & Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Bertini & WDR Symphony Orchestra Cologne

9th:
Klemperer & Philharmonia Orchestra
Chailly & Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
Barbirolli & Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra

10 Adagio:
Tennstedt & London Philharmonic Orchestra
Bernstein & New York Philharmonic Orchestra
Chailly & Berlin Symphony Orchestra

Das Lied von Erde
Klemperer & Philharmonia Orchestra
Walter & Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Tennstedt & London Philharmonic Orchestra (Singers are awful.Tennstedt's excellent orchestral work makes this recording worthy.)

 

[Corno Dolce]

I guess I'm somewhat biased in favor of Abbado & the Berlin Philharmonic when it comes to Mahler. And, in a way, the Berlin Phil by virtue of its professional history pretty much plays so well that the Conductor is just there to wave his arms and look important.

There are situations when a Symphony Orchestra "drags a Conductor kicking and screaming through a piece" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: ergo, they know the piece so well and have played it so many times that they show the Conductor how its done.

 

[acciaccatura]

6
9
10 Adagio only
7
1
5

I apologize if someone would complain about the missing
vocal symphonies which so many people agree are the epitome of Mahler's symphonic achievement. For me, #8 is just too much sound and not enough excitement but that is probably just me.

The first movement of #6 is always an electrifying experience, almost regardless of conductor. My fave recordings are probably Bernstein's old CBS, Tennstedt and Boulez' recent DG. There is a load of recordings out there, most of which are very good...

 

[zoned]

Thank you,Kromme for the very interesting post concerning Mahler and conductors of his music. I've always found Haitink to be a bit unemotional. But you recommended him as a good Mahler conductor. Thanks,I'll check out his recordings. I feel Mahler is the epitome of emotion in music so I gravitate toward Horenstein,Barbirolli,Rattle,Chailly,Bernstein. Would you beleive I heard Adrian Boult conduct Mahlers 1st-it was very emotional:not what I would expect from an Englishman! The best 3rd I have heard is Horenstein on Unicorn records. The performance was very clear,powerful,and seemed to follow the composer's wishes.My favorite 1st is Horenstein again. Too bad Horenstein did not live as long as many conductors. My favorite 6th is Bernstein and the New York Phil.,the one on CBS records from the 60's.Could anybody reccomend performances of the 9th,and 7th? Again thank you Kromme for your great post.And Mahler fans-keep the posts coming!

 

[Kromme]

Well zoned,as you can see in my post i agree with you on Haitink being a bit unemotional but sometimes,again depending on mood,i prefer Mahler cool.Some conductors take it too sentimental and after repeated listening to them i need a little more lightweight no-nonsense approach and thats where Haitink does the trick and his latest 3rd with Chicago is examplary.You should really hear it.

On Horenstein i again agree with you.He is a brilliant conductor and every single one of his Mahler recordings are masterful.He is a musician of spontaneous inspiration and the good thing is he is not uneven like Tennstedt.Most of his recordings however are live concert re-issues and the sound quality unfortunately does not help him.

I have never heard Adrian Boult conducting a Mahler symphony but i heard him as an accompanist to Christa Ludwig in Lieder Eines Fahrenden Gesellen.He was emotional there too.Being emotional is not the first thing to expect from an Englishman but Rattle and Barbirolli are also Englishmen and they are emotional in Mahler.I think ever-charming Beecham is responsible for this reputation.

 

[Kromme]

I guess I'm somewhat biased in favor of Abbado & the Berlin Philharmonic when it comes to Mahler. And, in a way, the Berlin Phil by virtue of its professional history pretty much plays so well that the Conductor is just there to wave his arms and look important.

Well,Berlin Philharmonic is able to do that in many composers but not in Mahler and not to Abbado i guess.Because before Abbado Berlin Philharmonic played little Mahler.Furtwangler i believe never conducted any and Karajan recorded only 4 of his symphonies wasn't exactly his core repertoire either.
Abbado is the one who put Mahler in the orchestras core repertoire but of course there is a video of Rattle conducting them in Beethoven's 5th.That video gives that impression.

 

[the maestro]

1- 6
2- 5
3- 4
4- 2
5- 1
6- 9
7- 7
8- 3
9-
10-
11-
12-
13- 8
!!!!!!!
In fact I cannot enjoy the 8th It is very bombastic and boring!!!!!!!

 

[Art Rock]

One of my favourite composers. My preference from best to least:

4
9
6
2
1
5
10
3
7
8

unless you count Das Lied von der Erde as (unnumbered) symphony, in which case it shoots straight to the top of the list.